Wii Der Wii und die Technik dahinter

Julian Eggebrecht/Factor 5 interview
September 10th, 2007

Our friends over at Revogamers were nice enough to translate some key points from their interview with Julian Eggebrecht. A lot of interesting stuff was said!

- On publishers not taking advantage of the Wii’s power for graphics: “the traditional, more photorealistic route, because there you really have to push it, and they’re really not pushing it. Why not? Hmmm I don’t know, the hardware is very, very easy to understand. Now the problem might be –and it just might be- is that some studios -or some publishers specifically- are discarding the graphical capabilities automatically simply because it is a Wii title and they’re basically telling the developers “look, we won’t pay for any advanced graphics”.”

- On Wii’s “shaders” and possibilities: “If you connect you can get a lot of shader effects which would’ve been on the 360 or the PS3.” (…)”it’s got so much more power compared to the GameCube. If even with the extremely similar shader hardware, the system clockrate is so much higher, you can do so much more advanced things” (…)”in the photorealistic route there’re certain things which the basic structure of the graphics hardware was not meant for and which you have to find really clever tricks to basically make up.”

- On porting their old tools (SW engine): “If we would do a Wii version of that, certainly that could be something which somebody could license. (…)” “But I can imagine that there will be several engines coming out, also for the Wii ”

- On casual gaming: “I really hate the current trend of the hardcore people very much getting into this bubble of being very defensive and not wanting the whole casual thing to happen. In the end it’s all one big market we’re, essentially we’re all casual.”

- On F5’s next project: “We’re honestly at this point thinking about several titles in development (…). So might be PS3, might be Wii… we’re totally open to that.”

- On Mario Galaxy: “is so inspired that it seems to be worth the success of Mario 64. (…) “yes, this thing is actually taking advantage, (…) it’s basically doing new graphical things with the hardware”

- On the German and European industry: “now that the consoles are coming back, specially with the Wii selling so extremely well, I think for the first time in many, many years, you actually have a pan-European situation where you can develop quite nicely”


gonintendo.com
 
Nintendo sollte mal eine USB Festplatte rausbringen oder die SD Karten zum Direktboot verwenden.
Als Sicherheitskopie kann man die SD Karte imo vergessen, aber als Direkteinbindung (starten von VC Games, Channels von der Karte) wäre sie super.

Dito! Was nutzen mir hunderte VC Games auf der SD Karte, wenn ich um sie zu spielen erst mindestens eins im Menü löschen muss und dann das Spiel von der SD Karte auf den interen Speicher ziehe... Unnötig umständlich! Zusätzlich kommt ja nach, dass ich mir das gelöschte Spiel wenn ich es spielen will erst wieder herunterladen muss... :rolleyes: (obwohl theoretisch ja auch die Möglichkeit besteht Spiele, die man nicht braucht einfach auf die SD Karte zu verschieben, wenn da noch Platz ist)

Echt unverständlich, dass wir mit dem Update ne Uhr im Menü bekommen, aber so etwas offensichtlich umständliches einfach beibehalten wird... >.>
 
Dazu fällt mir nur das ein:

Um ein tadelloses Mitglied einer Schafherde sein zu können, muss man vor allem ein Schaf sein.
Albert Einstein

Soll heissen: "Wenn man keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal..." ;-)


Dito.

Was Nintendo noch machen sollte, sie sollten es den Usern ermöglichen (auf irgendeine Art und weise) die VC auf eine SD Karte zu speichern.
Ich finde es sowas von bescheuert, wenn ich VC Games hab und die im Coop spielen will, meinen ganzen Wii mitzunehmen obwohl mein Freund auch einen Wii hat.
 
Was Nintendo noch machen sollte, sie sollten es den Usern ermöglichen (auf irgendeine Art und weise) die VC auf eine SD Karte zu speichern.
Ich finde es sowas von bescheuert, wenn ich VC Games hab und die im Coop spielen will, meinen ganzen Wii mitzunehmen obwohl mein Freund auch einen Wii hat.

Geht mir ja auch so, nur die Lücke (bezüglich kopierens) wollen sie wohl nicht zu gross gestalten. Kann ich auch verstehen (seitens Nintendo).
 
Denke ich mir auch. Aber dafür gibt es auch Wege und Methoden, es trotzdem sicher zu gestalten.

Ich finde es ein bisschen idiotisch die Leute zu bestrafen, die im Grunde die Games ehrlich kaufen.
 
Denke ich mir auch. Aber dafür gibt es auch Wege und Methoden, es trotzdem sicher zu gestalten.

Ich finde es ein bisschen idiotisch die Leute zu bestrafen, die im Grunde die Games ehrlich kaufen.


Stimmt schon. Man hätte vielleicht die Festplatte des Wiis als Wechselrahmen installieren muessen, dann hätten wir das Problem jetzt nicht. :)
 
Julian Eggebrecht/Factor 5 interview
September 10th, 2007

Our friends over at Revogamers were nice enough to translate some key points from their interview with Julian Eggebrecht. A lot of interesting stuff was said!

- On publishers not taking advantage of the Wii’s power for graphics: “the traditional, more photorealistic route, because there you really have to push it, and they’re really not pushing it. Why not? Hmmm I don’t know, the hardware is very, very easy to understand. Now the problem might be –and it just might be- is that some studios -or some publishers specifically- are discarding the graphical capabilities automatically simply because it is a Wii title and they’re basically telling the developers “look, we won’t pay for any advanced graphics”.”

- On Wii’s “shaders” and possibilities: “If you connect you can get a lot of shader effects which would’ve been on the 360 or the PS3.” (…)”it’s got so much more power compared to the GameCube. If even with the extremely similar shader hardware, the system clockrate is so much higher, you can do so much more advanced things” (…)”in the photorealistic route there’re certain things which the basic structure of the graphics hardware was not meant for and which you have to find really clever tricks to basically make up.”

- On porting their old tools (SW engine): “If we would do a Wii version of that, certainly that could be something which somebody could license. (…)” “But I can imagine that there will be several engines coming out, also for the Wii ”

- On casual gaming: “I really hate the current trend of the hardcore people very much getting into this bubble of being very defensive and not wanting the whole casual thing to happen. In the end it’s all one big market we’re, essentially we’re all casual.”

- On F5’s next project: “We’re honestly at this point thinking about several titles in development (…). So might be PS3, might be Wii… we’re totally open to that.”

- On Mario Galaxy: “is so inspired that it seems to be worth the success of Mario 64. (…) “yes, this thing is actually taking advantage, (…) it’s basically doing new graphical things with the hardware”

- On the German and European industry: “now that the consoles are coming back, specially with the Wii selling so extremely well, I think for the first time in many, many years, you actually have a pan-European situation where you can develop quite nicely”


gonintendo.com
Schöner Text, die Entwickler sollen sich endlich anstrengen, keiner ist blöd und jeder weiß, dass der Wii sehr viel mehr aufm Kasten hat. :)
 
Gamebryo Takes Shape on Wii

The engine used as the base technology for Oblivion, Civilization IV and other games is now heading to the Nintendo Wii.
ImageIt’ll be the first time that Emergent’s Gamebryo engine will be moving beyond the more powerful PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 platforms, as Emergent joins Nintendo’s Third Party Tools Program.

A heavily modified version of the Gamebryo engine is used for Bethesda Softworks’ Oblivion as well as the upcoming Fallout 3.

Emergent CEO Geoffrey Selzer said in a statement that the Gamebryo could help developers who were “caught off guard” with the Wii’s success quickly jump on the Nintendo development bandwagon.

Gamebryo is also being used by EA Mythic for the upcoming MMO Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. More than 200 games use the engine, according to Emergent.


http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7142&Itemid=2

Mhh nicht schlecht.
Das die Engine auf dem Wii läuft, ist aber imo nicht so überraschend.

Oblivion würde sogar auf einer Geforce3 laufen (mit einigen Tools) und der Wii hat eindeutig mehr drauf.
 
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ich würde da nicht sondelich viel drauf geben. die engine gibts schon länger auch für xbox1 und ps2(!). war nur eine frage der zeit das es auch für wii-entwickler erhältlich sein wird.

hier die systemspezifischen anpassungen

Platform-specific optimizations top

Gamebryo has been carefully optimized for each platform and incorporates special features designed specifically to enhance the target platform development experience.

Nintendo Wii

* Extensive rendering capabilities and integrations with key graphics tools, such as Max and Maya
* Scene Designer layout tool that allows drag and drop placement of objects, lights, and cameras
* An animation tool for mixing and matching animations and transitions
* Built-in libraries (collision detection, portal system and application framework)

Xbox 360

* VMX128 optimized matrix math routines.
* Multithreaded operations
* Memory management optimization
* Task manager framework for easily harnessing the power of the multiple processors on Xbox 360.
* Automatic generation of vertex and pixel shaders consistent with the Gamebryo multitexture pipeline.

PLAYSTATION 3

* Memory management optimization
* Cross-platform parallel task creation & issuing framework
* Automatic generation of vertex and pixel shaders
* In-console asset previews

PlayStation 2

* Geometry compression with fast VU1 decompression.
* VU1 hardware skinning.
* Support for 4-bit palettized textures to maximize VRAM usage.

Xbox

* Geometry compression.
* SSE optimized math routines.
* Pluggable memory framework for textures and vertex buffers.

http://www.emergent.net/index.php/homepage/products-and-services/gamebryo/gamebryo-engine
 
Sagen wir so. Ich sehe keinen Grund, warum der Wii die abgespeckte GeForce3 Version von Oblivion nicht zum laufen bringen würde.

Tweaker hat es zudem schon recht gut erläutert.
Die Engine ansich ist leicht anpassungsfähig.
Aber es ist auch demenstprechend leichter, Games die auf der Enigne basieren für andere Systeme anzupasen.
 
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ich hab meine wii nie gemochth nur den gamecube was drin steckt
und nachdem artikel merk wie viel mehr GC im Wii ist. (paradox weil das müsste dazu führen das ich die wii mehr mag....LOGIK :lol:)
Man bin so froh das ich für mein Wii kein Geld ausgeben hab.
 

Tja dann sag ich mal das hier:

The following is an interview with an industry insider who had hands on with Wii sdk 2.1. I will NOT be posting the name of this source for obvious reasons so you can believe me or not believe what it said here is true. It's entirely up to you. With that said. Enjoy.



What benchmark tests have you seen exactly?

PPC Benchmarks for the Wii Cpu under Linux compared to the X360 and PS3 Cpu's... Infact I find it kinda funny that the Wii CPU is almost Equal to a Single Core of the the X360... Also the Wii GPU has about 1/3 the Cache of the X360... See a Trend?!? 1/3 seems to be a Magic Number when comparing Wii and X360... Don't take this to mean the x360 is 3 Times the Power of the Wii, as it's Not... The X360 is roughly 2 - 2.5 the Speed of the Wii overall... The PS3 is roughly the same as the x360 Benchmark wise, however It gets Insane Scores at Floating point Math due to the SPE units... Overall to compare the X360 CPU and PS3 CPU to a Computer I'd say roughly a 3.2Ghz Intel P4 (Non-DualCore)... The Wii is some where in the 2.4 - 2.6Ghz Intel P4 (Non-DualCore) Range...GPU benchmarks are being worked on but as so little is really known for the 3 GPU's in question I doubt the numbers will be accurate enough to be useful...Basically the PS3 is the Most Powerful but only if you program for the SPE's and that is Rather Hard...The X360 is Second, but once again you need to program for a 3 Core CPU (granted it's easier then Sony)...Finally the Wii, It's simple Single Core design with High Memory bandwidth and just enough ram to keeps things running smoothly... Over all a great machine, but just not what some people wanted...I feel the Wii is what is know as a "Lead-In Product"... That means it's breaks new ground in a Radical Fashion but can still fall back to a normal if needed (ie: the WiiMote is not required for all Games)... This is why there was no HUGE Leap in other Hardware... If the Wii had Failed, The loss due to Hardware heavy machine could have been very bad for Nintendo... However, now that we can see the Market is accepting the WiiMote, the Next Nintendo Console will include a Revised Version if it and also the Beefed Up CPU and GPU the others have wanted... The DS is a Lead-In Product, we have yet to see what Nintendo has learned from it though... Of course not all products of this Type do well (ie: VirtualBoy)...

Tell me about the dev kit…

Basically it had plenty of Hardware info like the Memory Layouts for the GPU... We already knew that the 3 Megs was split into 2 Sections (Frame Buffer 2 Megs and Texture Cache 1Meg)Gpu and CPU can Copy it's contents to the 24 Megs Ram and Vice Versa, allowing for extended Graphics RAM or Texture Caching (and people wondered why 24 Megs of 1T-SRAM was On Chip)...Wii Dev kits have 128Megs instead of 64Megs of GDDR3 as Main Ram...Interesting Note: Inorder to make certain games Ran Smoothly in Finally Revision GC Dev Kits ran a Slower MHz then the Retail GC... 350~ compared to 485MHz...Even more Interesting : Mario Galaxy "Live Demo" that was Shown at E3 was run on a Modified GameCube, NOT Revolution Hardware at all... Expect something BIG from this Title...(Editor Note: this interview was done before the newer Galaxy trailer was shown)The "Re-Birth" Demo is given in here as example Code and it is ONLY 32 Megs in Size for the REAL TIME Rendered Version...

So why do wii dev kits have 128MB's instead of 64?

It's breathing Room... It gives them room to make some pretty sloppy code and test it before trimming it down to fit the 64Megs of the Retail Unit... Uncompressed textures and Sound could also be used in testing...The GC Kits where very restrictive as they had less power then the retail, Nintendo fixed that this time around...


I read somewhere than the 750 CL could go as high as 1.1 ghz... so what is broadway clocked at?

Software Clocked at 729 MHz via the Bios.

So what can you tell me about the TEV unit in the Wii? Does it have any addition pipelines? Vertex shader support?

TEV is Basicly the Same... The GPU has twice the Pipelines now at 8... Tev makes up for this by allowing 16 Texturing Stages per Pipeline... Vertex Shader routines are handled by Tev just like Pixel Shader routines are...

Do you know for a fact that it(hollywood) now has 8 pipelines or are you going by the #@#%nintendo interview?

FACT, it's listed in the SDK.

Any other Hollywood GPU tidbits you can tell me?


GC GPU to Wii GPU

162 MHz Clk to.... 243 MHz Clk ( 50 % Increase in Clk Speed )

3 Megs embedded Ram Same ( Wii able to use A-Ram as Additional

GPU/CPU Ram )

18-Bit color Used to avoid Frame Drops to.... 32-Bit Color Used at all times
4 Pixel Pipelines to.... 8 Pixel Pipelines
4 Texture Pipe (16 Stages Each) to.... 8 Texture Pipelines (16 Stages Each)

Resolution is Restricted in the SDK not in the Hardware...

Those are the Basics...

You can see where this would be 3-5 Times more powerful then the Normal GC GPU..

Cool. So how fast is the 64MB of GDDR in the Wii and has the 24MB of 1t-sram seen an increase in speed as well?

That's interesting in itself... Some GameCube programs rely on the Clock to a a Certain Ratio... The Gamecube CPU is 3 times the Clock of the GPU... GPU Clk is = to the Front Side Bus... Memory is Clk 2 times the GPU Speed...486 CPU 364 RAM 162 GPUThe Wii would be as Follows...729 CPU 486 RAM 243 GPU (ARAM would be at 243 also)As you can tell it's a Formula that they use and it seems to work well

So what can you tell me about the TEV unit in the Wii? Does is it dramatically different from the TEV in the GC? Vertex shader support?

TEV is Basicly the Same... The GPU has twice the Pipelines now at 8... Tev makes up for this by allowing 16 Texturing Stages per Pipeline... Vectex Shader routines are handled by Tev just like Pixel Shader routines are.

So does the file disclose any of the GPU's performance numbers?Gflops? Polygons per second? Fill rate? Stuff like that?

Only in a round about way... It gives you test code to run and shows some optimizations that can be added...The Code is run via Debuggers Cable or Wireless Network (Wireless requires a Special Disc in the Wii)...

But you can do the math. 8 pipelines at 243mhz… that’s about 1944 megapixels per second. That’s a lot higher than the GC could handle and around twice what the xbox was dishing out.


Hmmm.. this must have been what Julian from Factor 5 meant when he said the Wii had an insane filtrate.. well compared to the Gamecube.

Exactly.

http://wiinside.blogspot.com/2007/04/inside-wii.html
 
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eigentlich brauche ich garkeine genauen daten! ich sehe super mario galaxy und weiß bescheid!! ;)
 
@Brubi

ich seh da nichts von Factor5 und die Fakten der CPU Leistung basieren auf eine Benchmark, super...
 
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