ps3ngel
Gesperrt
Das hat mich jetzt wirklich hart getroffen. NOT!
Dann liegst du mit deiner Vermutung weit daneben.
Mich interessiert nicht im geringsten was für eine Schulbildung du hast.
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PC vs. Konsole
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Das hat mich jetzt wirklich hart getroffen. NOT!
Dann liegst du mit deiner Vermutung weit daneben.
Mich interessiert nicht im geringsten was für eine Schulbildung du hast.
ps3ngel
Gesperrt
Ähm, warum sollte ich für etwas Geld ausgeben (Photoshop) wenn ich es nahezu gleichwertig, nur in etwas umständlicher umsonst haben kann? Zumal GIMP sich auch stetig weiterentwickelt und langsam an der Photoshop Qualität kratzt. Wer weiß, wie weit verbessert Version 3.0 sein wird im Vergleich zur aktuellen 2.4.8.
Natürlich ist Photoshop wie gesagt komfortabler und immer noch einen Tick besser. Aber für CS2/3/4 an die oder über 1000 ausgeben?
Selbiges gilt auch bedingt für BLENDER, auch wenn das z.T. extrem buggy und eigenwillig ist. Vor allem beim Lightning und Rendern für einen Laien eine Tortur, aber sonst klasse!
GIMP kann man ehrlich nicht auf eine Stufe mit PS stellen, weißt du ja selber. Aber es ist halt Open source. Du musst ja auch keine 1000 für die neueste PS Version ausgeben. Version 6 oder 7 reicht völlig und gibts gebraucht für wenig Geld.
Blender ist okay, wenn man sich mal in die imo unübersichtliche Benutzeroberfläche eingearbeitet hat. Habs mir aber nicht so genau angeschaut und weiß nicht wie es mit dem Workflow aussieht. Hab von Anfang an 3DS Max genutzt und hätte keine Lust mich in ein anderes Programm einzuarbeiten, es sei denn ich bekomme Geld dafür
Osamabinbaden
L05: Lazy
- Seit
- 14 Jul 2008
- Beiträge
- 260
jop is mir auch relativ egal was unser "edel"engelchen über mich denkt
wir woll jetzt wieder beim thema bleiben
@ariest mhmmm mit steam muss ich dir zustimmen
aber ich hab in den letzten jahren kein spiel für pc gesehn was mich soooo lange gefesselt hat
ich finde dass kann man nicht als argument nehmen, da das imo geschmackssache ist und auf pc und konsole vorhanden ist zb lbp
Naja, mit einigen Umwegen und Kniffen bekommt man im GIMP schon ähnliche Qualität hin, wie in Photoshop.
Nen Web 2.0 Button erstellt man in Photoshop zwar mit einem Klick (weils glaube ich ne Effektfunktion ist), in GIMP geht es aber auch, allerdings in 5 Arbeitsschritten.
Welches 3D Programm eignet sich denn für nen absoluten Neueinsteiger wie mich am besten? Bzw. wessen Oberfläche ist am einfachsten und welches hat die für Einsteiger geeignetsten Tutorials? Will eher abstrakte und einfache Sachen modellieren, vor allem anständiges Glas ohne zig extra Plugin-Renderer zu installieren wie z.T. bei Blender.
Zumal die Blender Communities fürn Arsch sind und jemanden als Unfähig bezeichnen, wenn man nach 3 Tagen kein Meisterwerk erschaffen hat. Ist mir passiert.
Da laufen nur Leute rum, die behaupten, sie können Blender erst seit 3 Tagen, haben aber schon ganze Zimmer samt Möbel detailliert und richtig belichtet gerendert. Ne, is klar.
Nen Web 2.0 Button erstellt man in Photoshop zwar mit einem Klick (weils glaube ich ne Effektfunktion ist), in GIMP geht es aber auch, allerdings in 5 Arbeitsschritten.
Welches 3D Programm eignet sich denn für nen absoluten Neueinsteiger wie mich am besten? Bzw. wessen Oberfläche ist am einfachsten und welches hat die für Einsteiger geeignetsten Tutorials? Will eher abstrakte und einfache Sachen modellieren, vor allem anständiges Glas ohne zig extra Plugin-Renderer zu installieren wie z.T. bei Blender.
Zumal die Blender Communities fürn Arsch sind und jemanden als Unfähig bezeichnen, wenn man nach 3 Tagen kein Meisterwerk erschaffen hat. Ist mir passiert.
Da laufen nur Leute rum, die behaupten, sie können Blender erst seit 3 Tagen, haben aber schon ganze Zimmer samt Möbel detailliert und richtig belichtet gerendert. Ne, is klar.
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
ps3ngel
Gesperrt
Was für dich am besten ist kann ich dir nicht sagen. Cinema 4D ist ja weit verbreitet, habs auch getestet aber fand ich teilweise doch recht seltsam. Vor allem was die Zuweisung von Texturen betrifft und ähnliches. Zudem sieht man meist auf den ersten Blick, dass nen Bild mit C4D gemacht wurde. Ich mag 3DS Max am liebsten, allerdings die 4er/5er Version. Hab mir mal die 8er Demo angeschaut gehabt und habe ein Feature ganz besonders vermisst. Registerkartentabs. Dinge über die Menüleiste hinzuzufügen ist ja ganz okay, ich hab aber lieber Icons vor meinen Augen. Allein schon deshalb, weil ich es gewohnt bin. und der Mensch ist ja bekanntlich ein Gewohnheitstier. Wenn ich was empfehlen müsste, dann 3ds max. Tutorials sind als Hilfedatei in deutsch mit dabei.
P4inkiller
L13: Maniac
- Seit
- 8 Okt 2001
- Beiträge
- 4.509
Maya ist sehr gut, und gibts auch kostenfrei als edu version. dann kannste dich gleich in ein profiprog reinarbeiten.
PC Under Pressure
Wanted - Saviour of the big beige box. No miracle experience needed.
http://pc.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=17530
Wanted - Saviour of the big beige box. No miracle experience needed.
http://pc.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=17530
Duke-PCFreak
L09: Professional
- Seit
- 28 Apr 2007
- Beiträge
- 1.228
Naja irgendwie ein Artikel ohne viel Nachforschung, so kommts mir zumindest vor.
Zu seinem ersten Punkt:
Wieso sollte das Alter einen Einfluß auf die Wahl zwischen Konsole oder PC haben? Ältere Gamer können sich sogar eher einen PC leisten als die jungen, welche ja nun eben mal mehr sparen müssen um sich etwas zu leisten.
Zum Zweiten:
Inwiefern Piraterie einen Einfluß auf Retailverkäufe haben kann man immernoch nicht sagen da der PC Markt im Retailbereich zwar einfällt, was aber wohl eher dem verstärktem Onlinemarkt in Rechnung zu stellen ist als Piraterie, denn die gab es schon immer und relativ zur Größe der Industrie auch in gleichem Maße.
Zum Dritten:
Bugs sind kein PC Only Phenomän - eher haben jetzt auch Konsolenspieler dank der Onlinefähigkeit der Konsolen mit Bugs zu kämpfen und müssen auf Patches warten. Außerdem ist nicht jedes PC Spiel verbugt, eher sind es ein paar wenige Ausnahmen und der Großteil aller PC Spiele läuft soweit Bugfrei wie auch Konsolenspiele das tun (kleinere Bugs gibts in so großen Produktionen wie heutzutage überall - damit is Texturflackern, nachladeruckler, kleinere Memorylöcher gemeint).
Zum Vierten:
Das ist eben genau das was diese Gen selbst am PC anders ist, durch die Konsolen und dadurch vor allem auch durch die eher magere weiterentwicklung bei GPU Chips, hielten PCs diese Gen länger wie noch zu 2001-2004er Zeiten.
Zum Fünftem:
Wie man in seinem Fazit liest ist der Mann einfach ein Vista-Hasser - mittlerweile ist Vista keinesfalls eine Kompatibilitätsfalle und für die Kompatibilitätsfehler die es Anfangs gab ist weder MS noch Vista Schuld, sondern die Hardwarehersteller welche sich anfangs nicht ernsthaft mit dem neuem Treibermodell (welches an sich absolut notwendig und überfällig war) auseinandergesetzt haben. Mittlerweile laufen bei mir unter Vista mehr Sachen als unter XP (vor allem alte Games) und Treiber und Kompatibilitätsprobleme gabs auch schon spätestens seit SP1 nicht mehr.
Zum Sechsten:
Da hat er zum Teil echt Recht, allerdings gibts auch gute Beispiele und nur weil der PC Maus und Tastatur hat muss man nicht zwangsweise die Steuerung dafür auslegen, Gamepads gibts seit den Anfängen des PC Gamings für den PC und für Genres wo sie sinnvoll sind sollte man sie auch nutzen. Dazu kommt das es dadurch sehr gute Konsolenports auf dem PC gibt.
Zu seinem Fazit:
PC Gaming wird sicherlich nicht durch Windows7 gerettet und Windows7 ist nicht so viel schneller wie Vista, zumindest nicht so wie er das darstellt. Er ist der typische XP Whiner der sich nie wirklich mit Vista beschäftigt hat wie mir scheint und schon gar nicht sich aktuell damit beschäftigt. BTW muss PC Gaming nicht gerettet werden - dem PC Gaming geht es blendend - dem RetailPC Markt geht es nich so dolle - ist aber ne ganz andere Geschichte und PC Gaming ist mittlerweile viel mehr als der RetailPC Markt vermuten lassen würde.
Gibt ein paar sehr schöne Interviews auf RockPaperShotgun mit Capcom und der PCGA über das Thema - der Übersicht halber poste ich die dann mal serperat.
^^ schonmal im Vorraus sorry für den Doppelpost.
Duke-PCFreak
L09: Professional
- Seit
- 28 Apr 2007
- Beiträge
- 1.228
Wie im letzten Post schon geschrieben gibts zwei sehr interesante Interviews mit Capcom und der PCGA über den Status des PC Gamings.
Capcom On Digital Distribution, PC Ubiquity
PCGA President Randy Stude Talks Methodology
Capcom On Digital Distribution, PC Ubiquity
New PCGA-member Capcom think digital distribution is the future, and their support of PC gaming is tied up with that belief. One of the people behind that support is Christian Svensson, vice president of strategic planning at Capcom. Svensson talked to us about the importance of the PC for this traditionally console-focused publisher, the problems of developing for PC, and whether digital distribution is more important for the PC than retail.
RPS: Hi Christian, can we start by talking about Capcoms increased interest in the PC, and perhaps a little about the attitude of your company towards the PC as a platform?
Svensson: Sure, well, I think its fair to say that for PC audiences, when you think of the PC platform, then Capcom probably isnt a publisher that comes to mind right away. But there are two initiatives going on, one in Japan, and one in the West.
People might remember Devil May Cry 3, Resident Evil 4, and Onimusha - these were projects that were outsourced, and run by our licensing team, rather than internal R&D. They were thrown over the wall to a developer, and the ports were quick and dirty, and even internally were not viewed favourably. As part of the licensing deal Ubisoft had the rights to distribute. Shortly thereafter the US side of our business decided to bring that back into the consumer software side and grow it. At the same time there were two things happening in Japan: number one was the development of the MT framework, the technology which would allow us to port over work wed done on PS3 and 360 to the PC. The second thing was a broad online initiative towards Japan, Korea, and China, headed up out of the Tokyo office. The first title that has shipped is Monster Hunter Frontier, which is now one of the most successful MMOs in Japan.
So thats how we got to where we are with bringing titles to internal development on PC. Lost Planet was the first game to ship with DX10, and it had some of the code that became Steamworks in it. They had to peel out some of the code that we worked on for that game, to make what you see today on that platform. So we were forward thinking with all that kind of functionality. Since then weve released Devil May Cry 4 and Lost Planet Colonies. And MotoGP 08, NeoPets, Flock, Dark Void have all come, or are coming out, from the West. We also have Streetfighter 4 coming out from Japan on the near horizon, and Dead Rising 2 a bit further out. Theres more too, but weve not announced that yet.
RPS: But what actually sparked that change? When large publishers are grumbling about PC and pushing it away, why make that transition so actively?
Svensson: Taking a very global view. We have brands that are very appealing, but the platform of choice in many countries is not a current-gen console. Ill point to Russia, to Brazil, to emerging markets in the Middle East. India is an emerging market, even if it is a few years away from doing the kinds of things that we need. The PC is global, and its ubiquitous. And quite frankly, the more people who shy away from that platform, the bigger the opportunity. Its not easy, however. The PC has a lot of moving parts, theres a lot more testing to be done, theres a lot of considerations about how to even get to market. You need broad understanding. We know itll take a few years of development and investment before were where we want to be.
RPS: Is digital distribution more important to the PC than retail?
Svensson: For me? Absolutely. No question in my mind. Digital distribution on PC ties directly into our strategy. Capcom is trying to lead in digital distribution, and I would go as far as to say that in the console space we are already the leading software publisher. Weve had the highest revenue-generating Xbox Live title, weve had the highest revenue-generating Wii title, were definitely in the top three or four on the PlayStation network. To that end, on the PC side, Ive spent the past year building up a digital distribution channel that has about twenty different partners. Were ready on the console side, and we were the first Japanese publisher to do anything on Steam.
RPS: And would you say that increased digital sales presence is more important than increased PC presence at retail?
Svensson: In the current market, I would. We will probably do as much digital selling as retail in the current climate.
RPS: Youre a high-profile new member of the PCGA, who weve talked to recently, but what are you getting out of it?
Svensson: Look at the mission of the PCGA. Its to improve the PC gaming ecosystem. How do we go about doing that? One of the problems, to be candid, is that retail is falling away. What are the reasons for that? Partly its that return rates are very high. Returns of a PC title are usually double that of a console title - why? Because its not a great consumer experience because theres variation in minimum spec, and it requires a lot of consumer knowledge to figure out exactly what is in their box, and what that will run. If we can improve that, if we can improve issues with DRM and create an anti-piracy policy that is friendly to consumers, that will remove barriers to sales, and improve the ecosystem. Being completely mercenary: all this will improve our bottom line. The more successful we are on a platform, the bigger the risks we can take, and the better content we can produce there. Our membership of the PCGA is about improving the market: we want to improve the experience for consumers. More selfishly, if there are going to be best practices suggested that become standards, we want to make sure our interests are looked out for.
RPS: Piracy is the other big issue for the PCGA, isnt it? I see theyre working up a report on that.
Svensson: It is a big issue on PC, and its probably not going to go away. The PCGA is putting some of the best minds in the industry to work on that, and I hope itll be able to make some useful recommendations. We would like to improve the situation, because it would improve our bottom line. But we do really need to examine the situation carefully, and perhaps even look at whether some elements of piracy can be harnessed for good. As a distribution network it is useful, and perhaps that can help us distributed software trials and so on. There are aspects of piracy that, if they can be turned around, can become positive.
RPS: I guess well have to see just what the PCGA report recommends in that regard. Christian, thanks for talking to us.
RPS: Hi Christian, can we start by talking about Capcoms increased interest in the PC, and perhaps a little about the attitude of your company towards the PC as a platform?
Svensson: Sure, well, I think its fair to say that for PC audiences, when you think of the PC platform, then Capcom probably isnt a publisher that comes to mind right away. But there are two initiatives going on, one in Japan, and one in the West.
People might remember Devil May Cry 3, Resident Evil 4, and Onimusha - these were projects that were outsourced, and run by our licensing team, rather than internal R&D. They were thrown over the wall to a developer, and the ports were quick and dirty, and even internally were not viewed favourably. As part of the licensing deal Ubisoft had the rights to distribute. Shortly thereafter the US side of our business decided to bring that back into the consumer software side and grow it. At the same time there were two things happening in Japan: number one was the development of the MT framework, the technology which would allow us to port over work wed done on PS3 and 360 to the PC. The second thing was a broad online initiative towards Japan, Korea, and China, headed up out of the Tokyo office. The first title that has shipped is Monster Hunter Frontier, which is now one of the most successful MMOs in Japan.
So thats how we got to where we are with bringing titles to internal development on PC. Lost Planet was the first game to ship with DX10, and it had some of the code that became Steamworks in it. They had to peel out some of the code that we worked on for that game, to make what you see today on that platform. So we were forward thinking with all that kind of functionality. Since then weve released Devil May Cry 4 and Lost Planet Colonies. And MotoGP 08, NeoPets, Flock, Dark Void have all come, or are coming out, from the West. We also have Streetfighter 4 coming out from Japan on the near horizon, and Dead Rising 2 a bit further out. Theres more too, but weve not announced that yet.
RPS: But what actually sparked that change? When large publishers are grumbling about PC and pushing it away, why make that transition so actively?
Svensson: Taking a very global view. We have brands that are very appealing, but the platform of choice in many countries is not a current-gen console. Ill point to Russia, to Brazil, to emerging markets in the Middle East. India is an emerging market, even if it is a few years away from doing the kinds of things that we need. The PC is global, and its ubiquitous. And quite frankly, the more people who shy away from that platform, the bigger the opportunity. Its not easy, however. The PC has a lot of moving parts, theres a lot more testing to be done, theres a lot of considerations about how to even get to market. You need broad understanding. We know itll take a few years of development and investment before were where we want to be.
RPS: Is digital distribution more important to the PC than retail?
Svensson: For me? Absolutely. No question in my mind. Digital distribution on PC ties directly into our strategy. Capcom is trying to lead in digital distribution, and I would go as far as to say that in the console space we are already the leading software publisher. Weve had the highest revenue-generating Xbox Live title, weve had the highest revenue-generating Wii title, were definitely in the top three or four on the PlayStation network. To that end, on the PC side, Ive spent the past year building up a digital distribution channel that has about twenty different partners. Were ready on the console side, and we were the first Japanese publisher to do anything on Steam.
RPS: And would you say that increased digital sales presence is more important than increased PC presence at retail?
Svensson: In the current market, I would. We will probably do as much digital selling as retail in the current climate.
RPS: Youre a high-profile new member of the PCGA, who weve talked to recently, but what are you getting out of it?
Svensson: Look at the mission of the PCGA. Its to improve the PC gaming ecosystem. How do we go about doing that? One of the problems, to be candid, is that retail is falling away. What are the reasons for that? Partly its that return rates are very high. Returns of a PC title are usually double that of a console title - why? Because its not a great consumer experience because theres variation in minimum spec, and it requires a lot of consumer knowledge to figure out exactly what is in their box, and what that will run. If we can improve that, if we can improve issues with DRM and create an anti-piracy policy that is friendly to consumers, that will remove barriers to sales, and improve the ecosystem. Being completely mercenary: all this will improve our bottom line. The more successful we are on a platform, the bigger the risks we can take, and the better content we can produce there. Our membership of the PCGA is about improving the market: we want to improve the experience for consumers. More selfishly, if there are going to be best practices suggested that become standards, we want to make sure our interests are looked out for.
RPS: Piracy is the other big issue for the PCGA, isnt it? I see theyre working up a report on that.
Svensson: It is a big issue on PC, and its probably not going to go away. The PCGA is putting some of the best minds in the industry to work on that, and I hope itll be able to make some useful recommendations. We would like to improve the situation, because it would improve our bottom line. But we do really need to examine the situation carefully, and perhaps even look at whether some elements of piracy can be harnessed for good. As a distribution network it is useful, and perhaps that can help us distributed software trials and so on. There are aspects of piracy that, if they can be turned around, can become positive.
RPS: I guess well have to see just what the PCGA report recommends in that regard. Christian, thanks for talking to us.
PCGA President Randy Stude Talks Methodology
Last week I spoke to Randy Stude, director of Intels gaming program and the president of the PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA). The PCGA is an industry consortium made up of hardware manufacturers and PC games publishers, each with a significant commercial interest in the platform. The PCGA has so far released a couple of studies (pdf link) to its members, each looking at the numbers of PC gaming, for both hardware and software sales. They regard these as the most comprehensive studies so far, and Stude was keen to point out they didnt support the figures we mentioned previously from Jon Peddie Research. If anything, the PCGA suggest, PC gaming hardware sales are even bigger than that. And they should know: the PCGA members make all the components.
I was keen to learn a little more about what Studes intentions were, and what the PCGA really intended to do for our chosen platform. The answers were encouraging, and Stude seemed straightforward about the intentions of this, an industry business consortium, as well as the methodology that such a group should expect to employ.
RPS: Weve been following the PCGA stuff since we attended your press conference at the initial announcement at GDC in 2008. Can you explain a little more about how this came to be, and how you came to be the spokesman for the consortium?
Stude: The PCGA was actually first casually assembled at GDC in 2007. A bunch of us said lets get together and talk about whats going on with PC gaming, to see if we could come up with an agenda for dealing with the challenges that PC gaming faces, from an industry perspective. This is stuff that no one company can address without help. And its a unique challenge, because the PC is a mix of parts and software where the chief competitors are consoles controlled by one of the three major companies each. There was some noise being made about inconsistencies in approach for PC, and inconsistencies in the platform, and there was the problem of how we communicate with, well, not the hardcore.
Your audience, for example, generally knows how to get most games running, knows where to go for drivers, or to buy games. They know how to make what they like work. Our focus is on the mainstream consumer. They want to be able to play games on their PC too, but they wont have the knowledge to know if this hardware and this software works together, and thats what we were trying to sort out.
As we spoke to more publishers along the way they said thats fine and dandy, but can you try and do something about piracy, because thats our big issue for PC games. So thats what weve been looking at.
As for the second part of your question - were a non-profit corporation, and we had elections. I was voted in as president a little more than a year ago.
RPS: So whats the methodology? What has the PCGA done in the past year?
Stude: Well first up were a non-profit consortium, based out in Oregon, which is a friendly place for this kind of technology company. The structure is in place for companies who all want to collaborate for a particular direction on the PC to do so - the USB forum is here - and to be able to address specific issues together. So thats what weve been doing. Were not doing so casually, but also it should not be misconstrued as our trying to control the market, thats not what were trying to do. Were trying to solve problems, rather than scratch each others backs.
RPS: And so far youve been gathering data, including the Horizons report, a report for your members which states that PC gaming software accounts for $10bn worth of the gaming industry in 2007. NPDs retail report puts the entire industry in 2007 at around $18bn. That means that PC games software is half the industry in cash terms? Is that correct?
Stude: Its more than half. The NPD and other reports always include console hardware, and it was our approach with our Horizons reports to announce software and hardware separately. PC hardware is about $43bn, when you add that on top of PC gaming software its huge. We knew it was a big market - we know the subscription, casual, free-to-play people were out there, and we wanted to record that. What we didnt like was a retail-focused report like the NPD one saying that the market was heading in a certain direction, when we knew otherwise. Retail, as a percent of the market, is only 30% of PC gaming software. NPD arent measuring the majority of PC gaming software sales.
RPS: So if 30% still makes up half of gaming in total, then PC gaming software sales are still pretty substantial? You mentioned that publishers still wanted solutions to piracy: how much of a problem is piracy for the PC, really?
Stude: If a publisher says to me I dont want to release this game that I invested $50m in on PC, or I want to hold back release for six months and the reason they cite is that of rampant piracy on the PC - whether thats a legitimate concern or not, whether their business would really be impacted in that way or not - I stand up and pay attention. Theres an evolving problem there that is a real concern. A trend is evolving there that is disturbing. PC gamers who copy games exist everywhere in the world, and they may know its wrong, but its easy to do, as easy as it was to get music when Napster kicked off. Its so easy on PC - its much, much harder to be a consumer of pirated materials on the console side. So we formed a committee to come up with data on piracy, and some of the best methodologies for dealing with it.
When I say best methodologies I mean that we want to know how big the phenomenon is, what the methods are that are being used today, and what our members can do to deal with it. We dont want to alienate loyal customers, and we want methods that wont cause a revolt against PC gaming. Rights management doesnt have to impede on gaming.
RPS: Do you agree that big publishers are harming themselves with over-zealous rights management?
Stude: I agree that some of them are. I think they are losing some potential sales. The most controversial one recently was Spore, but Spore is selling insanely well all over the globe. So while the Amazon one-star blitz had impact in terms of creating awareness, I dont think EA are that concerned about it impacting on their sales. Would they do things the same way next time? Probably not! Theyve probably got that message loud and clear, that the method of rights management implementation they used on Spore (and Mass Effect I think) was not friendly to the gamer.
You know the gamer will often say in the same breath DRM is hurting the games industry, but you what? If youre doing to use DRM, Steam is great. Its what I see on gaming websites: people see Steam as an acceptable way of dealing with rights management. Personally I had a laptop stolen, and all the games on it were on Steam, and all I had to do was retract rights on my machines, and then reissue. It was really easy to make sure that the fool who stole my notebook didnt get several hundred dollars worth of games with it.
Another thing about rights management is that the companies that offer the solutions, offer very flexible systems, and to attack these companies, such as Sony for example, is probably not the right thing to do. If you look at say, Spores implementation of rights management and say thats not a good example of how to implement DRM, thats not necessarily Sonys fault. With SecuROM they offer quite different options. One of the PCGA members, Christian Svensson of Capcom, corrected that notion by our own members who were not familiar with the system: Sony give you the menu, and you pick and choose how you implement this rights management. We want to look at all these options, see what works for gamers, and see if we cant suggest a consistent approach. Were going to say this is what our research suggests and this is how you could implement rights management, based on what weve found. Were certainly not going to be issue claims against people with pirated games or anything like that! We just want to find the best method for approaching this challenge.
RPS: So you want the PCGA to be a centralised voice for the platform, just as Nintendo is for their platform, or Sony is for theirs? Although clearly not analogous in any controlling sense - not that theres got to be a ruling body or anything like that - just that there should be a central body speaking for the platform?
Stude: Thats right.
RPS: Shouldnt that be Microsofts responsibility? Hasnt it fallen to everyone else associated with PC gaming because of the Xbox project?
Stude: Microsoft are a major component of gaming on the PC, and their focus as been a lot on the Xbox. But theyll also be the first one to tell you, and show you, the legions of engineers that work on the Windows gaming technologies. Im talking about the core toolset that all the publishers rely on to bring their products to market. The DirectX updates are far more aggressive than anything you see on the consoles. Theyre static for five or six years at a time, and were getting DirectX 11 just a couple of years after DirectX 10. Thats important because the platform I enjoy the best has the potential - via Moores Law - of doubling its performance every few years.
Now some people think Microsoft should take the lead from a marketing perspective for PC gaming, and some people dont. Im in the camp that says the industry owns the platform, not any one company. If someone wants to play games on the PC theres as much Microsoft involved in that that equation as there is Nvidia, ATi, AMD, or Intel. The marketing falls to Acer or Dell, or anyone else involved in selling on the platform. If there are people rowing in the wrong direction, well, thats why weve got a Consortium to pull it all together: the consortium can speak for PC gaming, as opposed to one company saying how they think the world should be.
RPS: So theres an extent to which you need to change perceptions about the PC as a gaming platform, both inside the industry and among consumers Could there be a situation in which you can encourage people to say that buying a laptop for your family is better value for money than buying a next-gen PC and an HDTV?
Stude: Id love to be able to make that claim! As an Intel employee and shareholder Ive certainly enjoyed the success of laptops, but theres a bunch of challenges to be resolved with that, in terms of consistency. A consumer wants to buy a laptop and they want to be able to go to a laptop sales men and have them say this one gets seven hours of battery life, but its not PCGA compliant, just for example. What does PCGA compliant mean? Well that standard doesnt exist, of course, but lets say in the future it could, and what would that mean? Well it would mean that a laptop was compatible with a certain category of games. No one is telling the consumer that today. Theyre going out and buying something on a bunch of criteria which might be the operating system, a few other criteria described by the OEM. The consumer should feel comfortable that if they buy a notebook that it should play games, and were going to address that with our min spec.
We want there to be a min spec that says that a notebook is gaming ready, and that should be based in a set of criteria that an independent industry body came up with, that really makes sense. With that information a consumer can make an informed decision - and if theyre not buying for gaming they can buy something else. Those little netbooks, for example, arent really gaming machines, and people buy them for quite different reasons. But they should be able to buy that knowing that it isnt designed to play games.
RPS: That will sidestep some disappointments, I guess. So you are going to suggest standards for rating PCs?
Stude: We try to stay away from the term standards. A stable minimum spec is probably the best way to look at it. Minimum game specifications are published on every game box and supported by most developers, so what we want to do is to stabilise that, and make them consistent.
RPS: Do you have a timeframe for that? Do you have a min spec release pending?
Stude: Well be announcing our approach next year, around GDC, but were still settling that.
RPS: So we were looking at the John Peddie research this week, which shows that theres tens of millions of gaming PCs out there. And that seemed to suggest that the health of PC gaming, and the health of the PC gaming business were actually two different things. There are millions of gamers, but a lot of them are just settling on playing one or two games for an extended period - World Of Warcraft, for example. Or I play Eve Online regularly, and my comrades regularly play that to the exclusion of other games. Then there are mods which extend the lifespan of a single game indefinitely. The idea that the PC is in any way struggling is based purely on the picture of sold products, isnt it? When in fact gamers are happy playing the same game for year on year. Thats a really significant aspect of the PC, isnt it? Its a cultural difference between PC gamers and console gamers, and one that people need to understand. Do you agree?
Stude: Right now its not part of our research agenda to look at how many gamers are playing a game that is a year or older, but that would be really interesting set of data. But yes, whats powerful about the PC is how gamers will often have a love affair with one game, or with several games. That love affair doesnt end when the game isnt in the shelf any more. The console model relies on an attach rate of six or seven games per year, per console, right? If they dont get that kind of sell-through, they dont have a viable business model for selling the hardware in the first place. They have a demand that theres a constant pipeline of games. I guess theres this danger that games become too good, and players would play it day in, day out. If that happened then the console business model would fall apart. In PC gaming some gamers will have half a dozen games and play, say, Team Fortress 2 for a few months, and then maybe go back to Unreal Tournament 2004, or play World Of Warcraft or Civilisation for a few months. They cycle through these games.
Look at what sells so well on PC: Sims expansion packs. There is no comparison for that in console gaming, apart from experiments in downloadable content. And on consoles there is no modification of the games - which is particularly interesting for PC games. That could potentially be stopped overnight, and then it would become more like a console and wed lose what was great about PC gaming.
The people who really address the PC market well - Blizzard, Valve, the Epic licensees - understand that youve got to keep it fresh. The PC market falls in love and sticks with a game for years on end, and they cater for that. Also Crytek are really starting to realise that, even if theyve not had huge retails success so far. When we see more high end mods arrive for their games I think youll see more success there.
RPS: The console manufacturers are able to sell their consoles with the next-gen console and next-gen game message. Shouldnt we be seeing the PC sold as next-gen platform and also oh and we also have a twenty-year back-catalogue? Could the PCGA members utilise what is unique about their platform a little better?
Stude: Well as someone who works for the producer of one of the most important components of the PC [Intel] I am guilty of the next greatest thing mentality. To provide value for the guy who decides to upgrade this year, I need some showpiece titles. If I dont have a game like World In Conflict that scales to Quadcore, he might settle for Dualcore instead. We want games to make use of additional computing power, for games to evolve to do more - to wave your arms around to make things happen, to control games with your mind, right? To need the computing power to do that! Thats the reality of our business. We need the audience to buy into the need for computing power. That said, we are cognisant of the World Of Warcraft phenomenon and we do multi-million-dollar marketing campaigns with Blizzard. Thats a game that runs on a PC that is a few years old, but if youre in a PvP scenarios or quests with forty people on screen it wont run fine. I mean the big guilds might say you need a particular spec PC so that you dont slow everyone else down, that kind of thing. Thats the last thing you want, if everyones experience in a dungeon run is slowed down because one guy is running on five year old gear!
RPS: Agreed. Okay, thanks for talking to me. We look forward to seeing the PCGA min spec announcements in the new year.
I was keen to learn a little more about what Studes intentions were, and what the PCGA really intended to do for our chosen platform. The answers were encouraging, and Stude seemed straightforward about the intentions of this, an industry business consortium, as well as the methodology that such a group should expect to employ.
RPS: Weve been following the PCGA stuff since we attended your press conference at the initial announcement at GDC in 2008. Can you explain a little more about how this came to be, and how you came to be the spokesman for the consortium?
Stude: The PCGA was actually first casually assembled at GDC in 2007. A bunch of us said lets get together and talk about whats going on with PC gaming, to see if we could come up with an agenda for dealing with the challenges that PC gaming faces, from an industry perspective. This is stuff that no one company can address without help. And its a unique challenge, because the PC is a mix of parts and software where the chief competitors are consoles controlled by one of the three major companies each. There was some noise being made about inconsistencies in approach for PC, and inconsistencies in the platform, and there was the problem of how we communicate with, well, not the hardcore.
Your audience, for example, generally knows how to get most games running, knows where to go for drivers, or to buy games. They know how to make what they like work. Our focus is on the mainstream consumer. They want to be able to play games on their PC too, but they wont have the knowledge to know if this hardware and this software works together, and thats what we were trying to sort out.
As we spoke to more publishers along the way they said thats fine and dandy, but can you try and do something about piracy, because thats our big issue for PC games. So thats what weve been looking at.
As for the second part of your question - were a non-profit corporation, and we had elections. I was voted in as president a little more than a year ago.
RPS: So whats the methodology? What has the PCGA done in the past year?
Stude: Well first up were a non-profit consortium, based out in Oregon, which is a friendly place for this kind of technology company. The structure is in place for companies who all want to collaborate for a particular direction on the PC to do so - the USB forum is here - and to be able to address specific issues together. So thats what weve been doing. Were not doing so casually, but also it should not be misconstrued as our trying to control the market, thats not what were trying to do. Were trying to solve problems, rather than scratch each others backs.
RPS: And so far youve been gathering data, including the Horizons report, a report for your members which states that PC gaming software accounts for $10bn worth of the gaming industry in 2007. NPDs retail report puts the entire industry in 2007 at around $18bn. That means that PC games software is half the industry in cash terms? Is that correct?
Stude: Its more than half. The NPD and other reports always include console hardware, and it was our approach with our Horizons reports to announce software and hardware separately. PC hardware is about $43bn, when you add that on top of PC gaming software its huge. We knew it was a big market - we know the subscription, casual, free-to-play people were out there, and we wanted to record that. What we didnt like was a retail-focused report like the NPD one saying that the market was heading in a certain direction, when we knew otherwise. Retail, as a percent of the market, is only 30% of PC gaming software. NPD arent measuring the majority of PC gaming software sales.
RPS: So if 30% still makes up half of gaming in total, then PC gaming software sales are still pretty substantial? You mentioned that publishers still wanted solutions to piracy: how much of a problem is piracy for the PC, really?
Stude: If a publisher says to me I dont want to release this game that I invested $50m in on PC, or I want to hold back release for six months and the reason they cite is that of rampant piracy on the PC - whether thats a legitimate concern or not, whether their business would really be impacted in that way or not - I stand up and pay attention. Theres an evolving problem there that is a real concern. A trend is evolving there that is disturbing. PC gamers who copy games exist everywhere in the world, and they may know its wrong, but its easy to do, as easy as it was to get music when Napster kicked off. Its so easy on PC - its much, much harder to be a consumer of pirated materials on the console side. So we formed a committee to come up with data on piracy, and some of the best methodologies for dealing with it.
When I say best methodologies I mean that we want to know how big the phenomenon is, what the methods are that are being used today, and what our members can do to deal with it. We dont want to alienate loyal customers, and we want methods that wont cause a revolt against PC gaming. Rights management doesnt have to impede on gaming.
RPS: Do you agree that big publishers are harming themselves with over-zealous rights management?
Stude: I agree that some of them are. I think they are losing some potential sales. The most controversial one recently was Spore, but Spore is selling insanely well all over the globe. So while the Amazon one-star blitz had impact in terms of creating awareness, I dont think EA are that concerned about it impacting on their sales. Would they do things the same way next time? Probably not! Theyve probably got that message loud and clear, that the method of rights management implementation they used on Spore (and Mass Effect I think) was not friendly to the gamer.
You know the gamer will often say in the same breath DRM is hurting the games industry, but you what? If youre doing to use DRM, Steam is great. Its what I see on gaming websites: people see Steam as an acceptable way of dealing with rights management. Personally I had a laptop stolen, and all the games on it were on Steam, and all I had to do was retract rights on my machines, and then reissue. It was really easy to make sure that the fool who stole my notebook didnt get several hundred dollars worth of games with it.
Another thing about rights management is that the companies that offer the solutions, offer very flexible systems, and to attack these companies, such as Sony for example, is probably not the right thing to do. If you look at say, Spores implementation of rights management and say thats not a good example of how to implement DRM, thats not necessarily Sonys fault. With SecuROM they offer quite different options. One of the PCGA members, Christian Svensson of Capcom, corrected that notion by our own members who were not familiar with the system: Sony give you the menu, and you pick and choose how you implement this rights management. We want to look at all these options, see what works for gamers, and see if we cant suggest a consistent approach. Were going to say this is what our research suggests and this is how you could implement rights management, based on what weve found. Were certainly not going to be issue claims against people with pirated games or anything like that! We just want to find the best method for approaching this challenge.
RPS: So you want the PCGA to be a centralised voice for the platform, just as Nintendo is for their platform, or Sony is for theirs? Although clearly not analogous in any controlling sense - not that theres got to be a ruling body or anything like that - just that there should be a central body speaking for the platform?
Stude: Thats right.
RPS: Shouldnt that be Microsofts responsibility? Hasnt it fallen to everyone else associated with PC gaming because of the Xbox project?
Stude: Microsoft are a major component of gaming on the PC, and their focus as been a lot on the Xbox. But theyll also be the first one to tell you, and show you, the legions of engineers that work on the Windows gaming technologies. Im talking about the core toolset that all the publishers rely on to bring their products to market. The DirectX updates are far more aggressive than anything you see on the consoles. Theyre static for five or six years at a time, and were getting DirectX 11 just a couple of years after DirectX 10. Thats important because the platform I enjoy the best has the potential - via Moores Law - of doubling its performance every few years.
Now some people think Microsoft should take the lead from a marketing perspective for PC gaming, and some people dont. Im in the camp that says the industry owns the platform, not any one company. If someone wants to play games on the PC theres as much Microsoft involved in that that equation as there is Nvidia, ATi, AMD, or Intel. The marketing falls to Acer or Dell, or anyone else involved in selling on the platform. If there are people rowing in the wrong direction, well, thats why weve got a Consortium to pull it all together: the consortium can speak for PC gaming, as opposed to one company saying how they think the world should be.
RPS: So theres an extent to which you need to change perceptions about the PC as a gaming platform, both inside the industry and among consumers Could there be a situation in which you can encourage people to say that buying a laptop for your family is better value for money than buying a next-gen PC and an HDTV?
Stude: Id love to be able to make that claim! As an Intel employee and shareholder Ive certainly enjoyed the success of laptops, but theres a bunch of challenges to be resolved with that, in terms of consistency. A consumer wants to buy a laptop and they want to be able to go to a laptop sales men and have them say this one gets seven hours of battery life, but its not PCGA compliant, just for example. What does PCGA compliant mean? Well that standard doesnt exist, of course, but lets say in the future it could, and what would that mean? Well it would mean that a laptop was compatible with a certain category of games. No one is telling the consumer that today. Theyre going out and buying something on a bunch of criteria which might be the operating system, a few other criteria described by the OEM. The consumer should feel comfortable that if they buy a notebook that it should play games, and were going to address that with our min spec.
We want there to be a min spec that says that a notebook is gaming ready, and that should be based in a set of criteria that an independent industry body came up with, that really makes sense. With that information a consumer can make an informed decision - and if theyre not buying for gaming they can buy something else. Those little netbooks, for example, arent really gaming machines, and people buy them for quite different reasons. But they should be able to buy that knowing that it isnt designed to play games.
RPS: That will sidestep some disappointments, I guess. So you are going to suggest standards for rating PCs?
Stude: We try to stay away from the term standards. A stable minimum spec is probably the best way to look at it. Minimum game specifications are published on every game box and supported by most developers, so what we want to do is to stabilise that, and make them consistent.
RPS: Do you have a timeframe for that? Do you have a min spec release pending?
Stude: Well be announcing our approach next year, around GDC, but were still settling that.
RPS: So we were looking at the John Peddie research this week, which shows that theres tens of millions of gaming PCs out there. And that seemed to suggest that the health of PC gaming, and the health of the PC gaming business were actually two different things. There are millions of gamers, but a lot of them are just settling on playing one or two games for an extended period - World Of Warcraft, for example. Or I play Eve Online regularly, and my comrades regularly play that to the exclusion of other games. Then there are mods which extend the lifespan of a single game indefinitely. The idea that the PC is in any way struggling is based purely on the picture of sold products, isnt it? When in fact gamers are happy playing the same game for year on year. Thats a really significant aspect of the PC, isnt it? Its a cultural difference between PC gamers and console gamers, and one that people need to understand. Do you agree?
Stude: Right now its not part of our research agenda to look at how many gamers are playing a game that is a year or older, but that would be really interesting set of data. But yes, whats powerful about the PC is how gamers will often have a love affair with one game, or with several games. That love affair doesnt end when the game isnt in the shelf any more. The console model relies on an attach rate of six or seven games per year, per console, right? If they dont get that kind of sell-through, they dont have a viable business model for selling the hardware in the first place. They have a demand that theres a constant pipeline of games. I guess theres this danger that games become too good, and players would play it day in, day out. If that happened then the console business model would fall apart. In PC gaming some gamers will have half a dozen games and play, say, Team Fortress 2 for a few months, and then maybe go back to Unreal Tournament 2004, or play World Of Warcraft or Civilisation for a few months. They cycle through these games.
Look at what sells so well on PC: Sims expansion packs. There is no comparison for that in console gaming, apart from experiments in downloadable content. And on consoles there is no modification of the games - which is particularly interesting for PC games. That could potentially be stopped overnight, and then it would become more like a console and wed lose what was great about PC gaming.
The people who really address the PC market well - Blizzard, Valve, the Epic licensees - understand that youve got to keep it fresh. The PC market falls in love and sticks with a game for years on end, and they cater for that. Also Crytek are really starting to realise that, even if theyve not had huge retails success so far. When we see more high end mods arrive for their games I think youll see more success there.
RPS: The console manufacturers are able to sell their consoles with the next-gen console and next-gen game message. Shouldnt we be seeing the PC sold as next-gen platform and also oh and we also have a twenty-year back-catalogue? Could the PCGA members utilise what is unique about their platform a little better?
Stude: Well as someone who works for the producer of one of the most important components of the PC [Intel] I am guilty of the next greatest thing mentality. To provide value for the guy who decides to upgrade this year, I need some showpiece titles. If I dont have a game like World In Conflict that scales to Quadcore, he might settle for Dualcore instead. We want games to make use of additional computing power, for games to evolve to do more - to wave your arms around to make things happen, to control games with your mind, right? To need the computing power to do that! Thats the reality of our business. We need the audience to buy into the need for computing power. That said, we are cognisant of the World Of Warcraft phenomenon and we do multi-million-dollar marketing campaigns with Blizzard. Thats a game that runs on a PC that is a few years old, but if youre in a PvP scenarios or quests with forty people on screen it wont run fine. I mean the big guilds might say you need a particular spec PC so that you dont slow everyone else down, that kind of thing. Thats the last thing you want, if everyones experience in a dungeon run is slowed down because one guy is running on five year old gear!
RPS: Agreed. Okay, thanks for talking to me. We look forward to seeing the PCGA min spec announcements in the new year.
Das sind Mahlzeits liebste Texte. Ich frag mich wieviel Zeit er aufwendet um den Mist immer zu finden.
Na jedenfalls ist mein neuer PC seit letzter Woche da und bekommt meine volle Aufmerksamkeit. Und wenn das GAF irgendein Indikator ist, dann fragen da auch schon wieder vermehrt Leute welche Hardware sie kaufen sollen.
Der WoW-Effekt der HD Konsolen ist endgültig abgenutzt.
Mein Fazit daher: PC Gaming OHNE Ende
geloescht11593
Gesperrt
- Seit
- 17 Nov 2006
- Beiträge
- 2.145
So ein völlig hirnloser Text kann ja nur von einem Xbox-Fanboy kommen, der beim Wort PC sofort die Krise bekommt, weil er "sein" System in puncto Technik, Vielfalt usw. völlig alt aussehen lässt. ;-) Zudem treffen alle Punkte bis auf die letzten zwei auch auf Konsolen zu - Sinn dahinter? :-?
Die Konsolen sind viel mehr unter Druck als der PC.
Die Gründe liegen auf der Hand:
Sony und Microsoft haben durch ihre tollen, beliebten HD-Konsolen Milliardenverluste hinnehmen müssen. Wenn man die Technikabteilungen der beiden Firmen fragt, wer Verantwortung für die nächste Gen übernehmen will gibts nur Schulterzucken.
Konsolen haben mittlerweile alle Nachteile des PCs "übernommen" - bis aufs Aufrüsten, was aber für viele auch ein Vorteil ist, weil man sich so sein Wunschsystem selbst konfigurieren kann. Die Zeiten der reinrassigen und unkomplizierten "Konsole" sind endgültig vorbei, und die Leute merken das. Warum sollte man sich einen "Light PC" kaufen wenn man das Original mit viel mehr Möglichkeiten bekommen kann?
Spätestens wenn Starcraft 2 und Diablo 3 erscheinen, wird der PC einen Aufschwung sondergleichen erleben, sowohl bei der Software, als auch bei der Hardware. Die 6-8 Stunden-Hype-Kaugummi-Casual-Abenteuer der Konsolen haben gegen PC-Perlen wie Hearts of Iron, Empire Total War, Dawn of War 2 oder eben SC2 oder Diablo 3 keine Chance. Noch dazu ist die Hardware für einen Spiele-PC günstig wie nie und die Leute stellen sich neue PCs zusammen oder wollen demnächst kaufen - das merkt man in vielen Foren, wie Nihilist richtig anmerkte.
PC Gaming ist wie immer: beste Technik, meisten Möglichkeiten, größte Community, höchste Qualität
Konsolen Gaming ist auch wie immer: es versucht so zu sein wie PC Gaming - schafft es aber nicht ;-)
Die Konsolen sind viel mehr unter Druck als der PC.
Die Gründe liegen auf der Hand:
Sony und Microsoft haben durch ihre tollen, beliebten HD-Konsolen Milliardenverluste hinnehmen müssen. Wenn man die Technikabteilungen der beiden Firmen fragt, wer Verantwortung für die nächste Gen übernehmen will gibts nur Schulterzucken.
Konsolen haben mittlerweile alle Nachteile des PCs "übernommen" - bis aufs Aufrüsten, was aber für viele auch ein Vorteil ist, weil man sich so sein Wunschsystem selbst konfigurieren kann. Die Zeiten der reinrassigen und unkomplizierten "Konsole" sind endgültig vorbei, und die Leute merken das. Warum sollte man sich einen "Light PC" kaufen wenn man das Original mit viel mehr Möglichkeiten bekommen kann?
Spätestens wenn Starcraft 2 und Diablo 3 erscheinen, wird der PC einen Aufschwung sondergleichen erleben, sowohl bei der Software, als auch bei der Hardware. Die 6-8 Stunden-Hype-Kaugummi-Casual-Abenteuer der Konsolen haben gegen PC-Perlen wie Hearts of Iron, Empire Total War, Dawn of War 2 oder eben SC2 oder Diablo 3 keine Chance. Noch dazu ist die Hardware für einen Spiele-PC günstig wie nie und die Leute stellen sich neue PCs zusammen oder wollen demnächst kaufen - das merkt man in vielen Foren, wie Nihilist richtig anmerkte.
PC Gaming ist wie immer: beste Technik, meisten Möglichkeiten, größte Community, höchste Qualität
Konsolen Gaming ist auch wie immer: es versucht so zu sein wie PC Gaming - schafft es aber nicht ;-)
aganim
L17: Mentor
- Seit
- 24 Apr 2006
- Beiträge
- 13.667
Die Wii is doch unkompliziert. Selbst wenn man kein Internet für Updates hat: Diese kommen irgendwann mit den Games mitgeliefert und installen sich schon fast von selbst. Jede Oma kann des Teil bedienen...
Zähl nur schön Strategiespiele auf, denn das ist neben MMOGs vielleicht die einzige Sparte in denen der PC überlegen ist.
Höchste Qualität...
Genau GTA IV zeigt die sehr hohe qualitative Umsetzung. Die ganzen Spiele mit dem tollen Schreibschutz der das installen manchmal gar nicht erst möglich macht oder die Onlineaktivierung die auf 3x beschränkt ist... Super tolle Einfälle, die die Entwickler da hatten...
Glaubst du nicht, dass dein Post das PC Gaming wahnsinnig in den Himmel lobt und dabei gleichzeitig versucht nur die schlechte Seite der Konsolen zu zeigen?
Ich bin selbst PC Gamer und zocke genug Games um sagen zu können wie toll der PC ist und wie toll manchmal auch nicht.
Aus meiner sicht ist PC Gaming nicht wirklich am Ende, aber das es genau anders rum sein soll: "Konsolen am Ende" (so wie du es aufführst) grenz für mich an Blasphemie...
Und warum nehmt ihr IMMER!!!!!! das allerschlechteste Beispiel, im aktuellen Falle GTA4?
Die PC Spieler können sich auch mal das allerschlechteste Beispiel der Konsolenspiele heraussuchen.. Ach ne, das wäre dann natürlich wieder nicht gerecht! Verstehe.
Razor hat voll und ganz Recht mit der Spieldauer.
Sie werden immer und immer kürzer. Wo vor 2 Jahren noch 10 Stunden als kurz empfunden wurden, sind heute 7-8 Stunden vollkommen normal.
Er braucht nicht nur Strategiespiele aufzuzählen. Gibt genug PC und Multispiele, die beweisen, dass es auch länger geht.
Komischerweise, und da hat er auch Recht, wird der größte Hype immer um die Popcorn Spiele, wie Killzone 2 aktuell, gemacht. 7 Stunden und nix dahinter.
Also bitte aganim, das siehst du doch auch.
Sowohl PC als auch Konsolengaming ist nicht am Ende und auch nicht nahe dran. Beim PC verlagert es sich nur zunehmend auf den Onlinevertrieb. STEAM Zahlen sind nicht bekannt, aber sie müssen enorm sein, wenn der Audiosurf-Entwickler binnen 4 Monate zum Millionär wird.
Die PC Spieler können sich auch mal das allerschlechteste Beispiel der Konsolenspiele heraussuchen.. Ach ne, das wäre dann natürlich wieder nicht gerecht! Verstehe.
Razor hat voll und ganz Recht mit der Spieldauer.
Sie werden immer und immer kürzer. Wo vor 2 Jahren noch 10 Stunden als kurz empfunden wurden, sind heute 7-8 Stunden vollkommen normal.
Er braucht nicht nur Strategiespiele aufzuzählen. Gibt genug PC und Multispiele, die beweisen, dass es auch länger geht.
Komischerweise, und da hat er auch Recht, wird der größte Hype immer um die Popcorn Spiele, wie Killzone 2 aktuell, gemacht. 7 Stunden und nix dahinter.
Also bitte aganim, das siehst du doch auch.
Sowohl PC als auch Konsolengaming ist nicht am Ende und auch nicht nahe dran. Beim PC verlagert es sich nur zunehmend auf den Onlinevertrieb. STEAM Zahlen sind nicht bekannt, aber sie müssen enorm sein, wenn der Audiosurf-Entwickler binnen 4 Monate zum Millionär wird.
aganim
L17: Mentor
- Seit
- 24 Apr 2006
- Beiträge
- 13.667
Weil des allseits bekannt ist?
Seltsamerweise waren die PC Ports von noch vor 2 Jahren besser als die meisten aus heutiger Zeit. Jetzt auch wenn man von GTA IV absehen würde. Also ich empfinde das so...^^
Doch könnt ihr (bzw. ich ja auch, bin ja selbst PC Spieler
) nur des Vorurteil einiger PClos, dass es nicht gerecht wäre, wenn die PC Gamer das allerschlechteste Beispiel raussuchen stinkt irgendwie... Das trifft doch aber gleichermaßen auf Konsolen wie PC zu...
Wenn ich die Umfang eines Strategie oder RPGs mit dem eines Shooters auf ner Konsole vergleiche is natürlich klar, wo man länger zu beißen hat.
Nur Vergleiche ich nen Shooter auf Konsole mit PC, dann geben sich die Systeme da nich viel. Zumal der Umfang in erster Linie sowieso am Entwickler liegt und nicht an der Konsole/dem PC...
Kann den Hype um Killzone 2 auch nich verstehen.
Wie oben schon geschrieben sollte man auch möglichst die Games desselben Genres vergleichen...
Mein Gott soll ich den Umfang von Tetris mit dem von World of Warcraft verlgeichen?
Dat stimmt, die Zahlen würd ich auch gern sehen. Ich persönlich mag Steam nicht wirklich und kaufe meine Games lieber, dennoch sollte man mal genauere Zahlen davon haben...
Warum kriegt man denn überhaupt keine Zahlen der Downloads von Steam? :-?
Amuro
L99: LIMIT BREAKER
- Seit
- 13 Jun 2007
- Beiträge
- 86.923
die Wii ist die einzige Ausnahme
in Shootern und westlichen RPGs (die auf diversen P&P Regeln basieren) ist der PC auch ohne weiteres überlegen (eigentlich ist der PC in jedem Bereich überlegen, in der er bessere Leistung/Grafik etc darstellen kann, daher das Wort "überlegen")
und GTA4 ist natürlich die Regel
genauso gut könnte ich sagen "alle Konsolenspiele ruckeln vor sich hin - man muss sich nur mal Last Remnant anschauen"
merkst du was?
das kann man allgemein so stehen lassen - egal bei welcher Plattform man das sagt
gibt immer mal Spiele, die länger oder kürzer sind als andere - liegt meist am Genre (Shooter sind in der Regel kürzer als RPGs oder Strategietitel - wobei das früher auch einw enig anders war - heute muss man einen 20 Stunden Shooter mit der Lupe suchen, früher gab es in dem Bereich einiges) und/oder meist am Publisher (heute sind wir ja so weit, dass man sich "Bonusepisoden" als DLC runterladen kann - Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia etc. )
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
SweetHannah
L08: Intermediate
- Seit
- 16 Jun 2008
- Beiträge
- 971
Die Sache mit den verkürzten Spielzeiten find ich imho doch ganz in Ordnung. 
Lieber einen kurzweiligen 5-7 Stunden Shooter mit ausreichenden Action Einlagen, als nen 10-15 Stunden Shooter, der viel Leerlauf beeinhaltet
Lieber einen kurzweiligen 5-7 Stunden Shooter mit ausreichenden Action Einlagen, als nen 10-15 Stunden Shooter, der viel Leerlauf beeinhaltet
sk8ks
L04: Amateur
- Seit
- 21 Jul 2007
- Beiträge
- 132
Die Sache mit den verkürzten Spielzeiten find ich imho doch ganz in Ordnung.
Lieber einen kurzweiligen 5-7 Stunden Shooter mit ausreichenden Action Einlagen, als nen 10-15 Stunden Shooter, der viel Leerlauf beeinhaltet
Imo sollten die Entwickler versuchen einen kurzweiligen 10-15 Stunden Shooter zu entwickeln. Gibt ja einige (auche neuere) Beispiele, die zeigen, dass sowas geht.
Amuro
L99: LIMIT BREAKER
- Seit
- 13 Jun 2007
- Beiträge
- 86.923
ich will wieder mal einen Shooter mit dem Umfang eines Jedi Knight 1 oder dem Witz eines No one lives Forever
^^
orange
L06: Relaxed
- Seit
- 2 Jan 2008
- Beiträge
- 469
Oh ja, das waren noch Zeitenich will wieder mal einen Shooter mit dem Umfang eines Jedi Knight 1 oder dem Witz eines No one lives Forever
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