PS2 Killzone

  • Thread-Ersteller Thread-Ersteller Red
  • Erstellungsdatum Erstellungsdatum
Die Texturen sind wirklich der Hammer! Wie haben die Entwickler das fertig gebracht? Das ist mit Onimusha 3, GT 3, FF XII und MGS 3 das best aussehendste PS2-Spiel.
 
Sonic schrieb:
Die Texturen sind wirklich der Hammer! Wie haben die Entwickler das fertig gebracht? Das ist mit Onimusha 3, GT 3, FF XII und MGS 3 das best aussehendste PS2-Spiel.
Das liegt einfach daran das die Entwickler mehrere Texturschichten übereinander gelegt haben. :)
 
Red schrieb:
Sonic schrieb:
Die Texturen sind wirklich der Hammer! Wie haben die Entwickler das fertig gebracht? Das ist mit Onimusha 3, GT 3, FF XII und MGS 3 das best aussehendste PS2-Spiel.
Das liegt einfach daran das die Entwickler mehrere Texturschichten übereinander gelegt haben. :)

Mich wundert allerdings, dass sie es geschafft haben, all die Texturen in das wenige RAM reinzupacken...
 
Aufs Endergebins kann man gespannt sein. Denn laut den Entwicklern soll das Spiel dann noch in 60 Frames laufen. Wie es aussieht sind die Jungs einfach super Programmierer. ;)
 
Mich wundert allerdings, dass sie es geschafft haben, all die Texturen in das wenige RAM reinzupacken...
Tun die ja garnicht. Sie nutzen einfach die komplette Bandbreite aus um, so schnell wie möglich, die Texturen zu swappen. In diesem Fall wird halt nichts im Grafikcache gelassen. Das Problem ist nur halt die komplette Bandbreite auszunutzen und das haben die einfach geschafft.
 
Dann stell ich mir die Frage: Falls das Spiel wirklich in 60fps laufen sollte (was ich aber noch etwas bezweifle, aber falls), wäre es dann theoretisch nicht möglich, ein grafisch noch schöneres PS2-Spiel mit 30fps zu machen...?

Also, falls es so wäre, dann würde das bedeuten, die PS2 hat ihr Limit noch lange nicht erreicht..., Gran Turismo 4 dito...
 
frames60 schrieb:
Dann stell ich mir die Frage: Falls das Spiel wirklich in 60fps laufen sollte (was ich aber noch etwas bezweifle, aber falls), wäre es dann theoretisch nicht möglich, ein grafisch noch schöneres PS2-Spiel mit 30fps zu machen...?

Also, falls es so wäre, dann würde das bedeuten, die PS2 hat ihr Limit noch lange nicht erreicht..., Gran Turismo 4 dito...

Wenn die PS2 z.B. am Texturelimmit ist, dann wars das. Des weiteren könnte sie am Polygonlimit sein, da der Speicher zu klein ist. Das heißt auf gut Deutsch. Es wäre möglich das die SP2 für mehr Grafikpower einfach einen zu geringen Speicher hat und deshalb die 60FPS schafft weil sie dennoch ein schnelles CPU GPU Gespann hat.

Ich erwarte jetzt erst gar nicht das dies einer versteht.. :rolleyes:
 
Ach nee..., unser Schlaumeier mal wieder. Denk nochmal über deinen Text nach, vielleicht fällt dir auf, was daran nicht stimmt..., schon jemals in deinem Leben programmiert?
 
frames60 schrieb:
Ach nee..., unser Schlaumeier mal wieder. Denk nochmal über deinen Text nach, vielleicht fällt dir auf, was daran nicht stimmt..., schon jemals in deinem Leben programmiert?

Ja..

Ncohmal.

Texturen und Polygone befinden sich im Arbeitsspeicher, werden dort ausgelagert. Diese wandern dann in den schnellen 4 MB Grafikspeicher wo damit die aktuelle Szene berechnet wird.

So, jetzt haben die aber schon ihr Limit an Speicher verbraucht obwohl sie 60 FPS benutzen. Würden sie 30 FPS nutzen könnten sie zwar theoretisch doppelt soviele Polygone berechnen, aber der Speicher würde dazu fehlen.

Hast Du denn schonmal mit 3D-Rendering gearbeitet?

EDIT: Nochmal zum Verständniss die PS2 könnte natürlich nicht wirklich doppelt soviele Polygoen berechnen, aber doppelt soviel darstellen bei 30 FPS.
 
So gesehen stimmt das. Ich hatte deine Antwort anders interpretiert. Allerdings halte ich das in der Praxis dennoch für unwahrscheinlich, dafür müßte wirklich 100% (und 48Gbyte voll durchlaufen) ausgelastet sein und das glaub ich auch bei Killzone nicht.

PS: Ich arbeite momentan mit DirectX 9 D3D-Rendering...
 
frames60 schrieb:
So gesehen stimmt das. Ich hatte deine Antwort anders interpretiert. Allerdings halte ich das in der Praxis dennoch für unwahrscheinlich, dafür müßte wirklich 100% (und 48Gbyte voll durchlaufen) ausgelastet sein und das glaub ich auch bei Killzone nicht.

PS: Ich arbeite momentan mit DirectX 9 D3D-Rendering...

Das ist es ja, die PS2 ist sehr Rechenintensiv (stärker als ein Cube aber schwächer als eine XBOX) dafür hat sie aber mit Abstand den geringsten Grafikspeicher. Deswegen sind auch fast immer 60 FPS möglich. Hat Sony von Anfang an auch bestätigt, das auf der PS2 es immer 60 FPS geben wird, womit sie auch recht haben, es liegt an der Architektur der PS2. Das Konzept ist auch sehr gut bis auf den Speicher, der ist eindeutig zu klein ausgefallen (Grafikspeicher, Mainram ist in Ordnung).
 
Wie schon gesagt müsste dazu aber die Komplette Bandbreite zu sein und bei 48GB in der Sekunde glaube ich das nicht! Nebenbei hat der Gamecube mit seinem 1MB Texturcache (Kompression ~ 6MB) auch nicht viel mehr als die PS2 zur Verfügung.
 
resonic schrieb:
Wie schon gesagt müsste dazu aber die Komplette Bandbreite zu sein und bei 48GB in der Sekunde glaube ich das nicht! Nebenbei hat der Gamecube mit seinem 1MB Texturcache (Kompression ~ 6MB) auch nicht viel mehr als die PS2 zur Verfügung.

Ohje... beim Cube sind es ein richtiger Chache, sprich die Texturen kommen eigentlich mit 2,6 GB/s aus dem Mainram und werden nur zwischengelagert. Des weiteren glaube ich sind es 2 MB und 1 MB Framebuffer... Bei der PS2 fehlt allerdings die Option die Texturen aus dem Hauptspeicher direkt zu ziehen was nun der größte Flachenhals ist da man die 4 MB als RICHTIGEN Videospeicher benutzen muss. Wäre dies nicht so, könnt eman die 4 MB als Framebuffer etc.. ordentlich einsetzen und die Texturen aus dem Mainram ziehen, geht abe rnicht, deswegen flimmern die meißten Games noch.

Beim Cube ist das wikrlich ein gutes System vom Speicher her.
 
Nein die 2MB stehen als Z-Buffer Cache zur Verfügung, die restlichen 1MB werden hingegen frei genutzt.
 
resonic schrieb:
Nein die 2MB stehen als Z-Buffer Cache zur Verfügung, die restlichen 1MB werden hingegen frei genutzt.

Dann sind eben die 2MB Framebuffer und die 1MB Texturcache, trotzdem ist es CACHE!

Die XBOX hat nur 128 oder 256 KB Cache.. was nun? Wie erklärst DU dir dann die Texturen. ROFLMAO! :lol: :lol:
 
KillzoneGame.com’s first Killzone playtest!!

It has been a while since we last heard news concerning a tour through the offices, it was planned somewhere around Christmas, and we would also been given an exclusive playtest. Last week it finally happened, TheIceMan and me were standing in front of the building on Wednesday the 17th of December, at around 2pm.

We have been there the entire afternoon, and we had seen a lot, not to mention felt a lot :P. We learned more about the technique which is being used by Killzone, and were quite impressed. Our experiences can be found in our reports, in which we share what we have been through.

The adrenaline is still pumping through our veins!



In-cre-di-ble! It’s hard to explain that which Snake and I had seen. Three weeks ago the long awaited mail was finally delivered in our digital mailbox. Guerrilla invited us to come and drop by in their office, located on the Herengracht in Amsterdam. We would be getting an exclusive playtest of their Playstation 2 game, Killzone, and we would get a tour through the building, complete with explanations about the techniques they used for the game. It was very nice to meet the crew behind Killzone, who are delivering truly amazing work! The cold atmosphere, de superb animations, fluid gameplay and especially the care that Guerrilla has put into ever detail have already made Killzone the ultimate shooter for the Playstation 2!



Sorry for all the enthusiasm just then, I just had to release it ;) But, let’s go deeper into how well Killzone plays. I’m mostly going to tell about our experiences with the game, later on we will go into more detail as to the production and the techniques that were used.



So, here we are, standing in front of the Guerrilla building. After we told we had an appointment. we could go in. The elevators were broken, so we had to use the stairway. On the way up we met Joris de Man (Musical Director) and together we went to the presentation room where Arjen Bokhoven (Artist) and Nancy Gatehouse (PR-Manager) were waiting for us. After the initial introctions we sat down on some red couches, in front of a beamer with a big screen, and a Playstation 2 that is already turned on. It was quite a thrilling sight, seeing Killzone’s menuscreen appear, with a nice animation on the background depicting ISA soldiers getting ready for battle. The used orchestral score gave it quite an epic feel, and so were already in the Killzone mood!



Arjen already started the level ‘Lift Shaft, what we, remarkably, have not yet seen in any screenshot. Arjen tells us this is one of his favourite parts of the game. “Every game needs a lift shaft in my opinion, it’s one of the places that gives me a unique feeling. “ And it delivers the said feeling quite well. The classical situation of a lift shaft, with Helghasts who are trying to take your life, is truly amazing. ‘Lift Shaft’ is also the level that takes place before ‘The Slums’, so after this, we will be able to continue there, or so we thought. Pretty soon, the Helghast become to strong, and we soon saw the “Mission Failed” screen, so that was that.



The next level then: ‘The Slums’! After all we had already seen of this level, we were very curious to it of course. Coincidentally, this was also the very first level that was created for the game, but, will not be first place you start. After Joris had selected Templar to play with, the level was loaded. Out of this we can assume that Killzone will not be using the so-called ‘streamloading’ or ‘loading on the fly’ technology, which we have seen in the Jak & Daxter games.



Once it was done loading, we arrived in the well-known slums, with two other teammates who had already assembled themselves there. “In the start of the game you are completely alone, but as the game progresses you will come across more and more fellow ISA soldiers and together you can put up a defensive block against the Helghast.’ According to Nancy. Meanwhile, Joris was busy to get around a corner with Templar only to find an enemy soldier. With a few shots the soldier slumped and fell down screaming. Joris and Arjen started to laugh, “All the voices that have been used in the game so far have not been done by Voice Actors yet, that is something we will do in a further state of the game. For all the temporary voices we used our own team, just like the wonderful death-scream that has been done by Jan-Bart our Lead Artist,” Joris explains.



He continues through the setting and takes down one Helghast after the other. We have seen different animations, all of which are very cool, like the vaulting (jumping over an obstacle) and the reloading animations, but those are just a tip of the iceberg. My favourite is the knifing animation. Instead of using a very standard quick animation in which you thrust the blade in someone’s body, you get to see a very large animation. Two hands can be seen, while you walk toward your opponent, with one hand you grab the neck of the unlucky fellow, turn it a few degrees and then you slice the sharp edge across his neck. Of course this is followed by a scream and this time it was provided by Joris himself.



Now, it was my turn, I took the controller, knowing how much people I would make jealous by doing this. So now finally I have the honour to play Killzone myself, even though it’s just for a short time. After I had shot of some rounds, and had thrown a grenade in front of my own feet, I’m beginning to get used to the controls. As you can see, getting used to the game is quite simple, and to top it off, you can set-up your own control scheme.



Then it’s time to use my weaponry for the most important task there is, picking off some Helghast soldiers. In the distance, a few can be seen, they are taken care of pretty fast after some shots were fired and a grenade was thrown. Wow, was the first thing that went through me, that was an awesome experience! Killzone really gives you the feeling of holding a gun, instead of a few polygons. It’s very hard to describe, but so breathtakingly good. The cold steel really gets a meaning, and that is fairly important for an FPS I would reckon.



Killing and shooting I make my way through the slums, until a loud noise draws my attention. I look up, and there it is, the enemy dropship we’ve all seen in one of the movies. It was a truly magnificent sight to behold, Helghast soldiers that rappel down and immediately look for cover when they touch the ground. All this happens while dust clods flow that are flung around by the ship flow around them. This one is set for truly memorable moments, one of many which Guerrilla is trying to implement at least one of in every level. Though we are still doubting about it, 26 memorable moments seems to be a little too much for one game.



Just before I die I manage to shoot the last one, coming out of the dropship, down. The Helghasts look really awe-inspiring, and the Nazi influences are apparent constantly. As soon as you see one of those monsters looking at you with it’s big orange/red eyes you have to shoot it! The slums really add to the overall feel, with it’s, literally, devastating good looks. Although there is a futuristic setting the realistic feel stays alive, as Arjen told us with a certain gesture towards it’s competitors. “The atmosphere and surroundings of Killzone is something we tried to keep as recognizable as possible. What we try to produce is that the gamer really gets the feeling of being involved in everything that happens. If we were to explore unknown worlds, objects or missions in which the player doesn’t feel at home, then there is no motivation to keep playing.”



Now it’s Snake’s turn, and he chooses to go for the Waypoint Mall. It’s here that the graphical side of the game really starts to impress, we didn’t expect that a Playstation 2 game could look this good! Believe me, the few high resolution shots we’ve seen so far look exactly like the game. I can go on for hours about how good this looks! Luger is still standing in a side-section of the mall, and we look around a bit to see how it looks. In front of us we see a potted plant, which can be shot up accordingly if you want to lose some anger. Next to us, we see a few neglected posters and vending machines, if we look around a little more, we can see a bright white tile floor, with smudges of blood here and there. In the distance we can see an escalator, which gives us access to the rest of the complex. If we take a better look at the tiled floor, we can clearly see the great reflection in it, the tiles are also shining there were they are supposed to shine. Not the entire tile, but just the edges, with exception ofcourse of the grooves. “We devised a special technique which gives us the opportunity to give the exact location on an object which is supposed to shine. This is different than in Halo, in which almost everything shines. We also hope to give Killzone that a more realistic look.” According to Arjen.



Snake continues to walk a little, and ends up at the shops. After shooting some more Helghasts it’s time to switch weapons. It becomes apparent almost immediately that the Helghast weapons shoot a lot faster than the ones in the ISA armament. “The weapons of the ISA are very modern, and therefore a lot more precise. The downside though is that they are little slow,” Nancy explains to us, “this in contrary to the ones being used by the Helghast, which are also quite fast, but a lot less accurate.”



Snake decided to zoom in on one of the fellow ISA soldiers and then we can see the remarkable detail on all of the characters. Especially Luger looks amazing, Guerrilla is, naturally, very proud of her. Every detail, every scratch can be found, and the best thing is, it looks truly amazing! For the ones who were curious about the faces, the ones who are going to be used ingame still need to be created, the same thing goes for the sounds. The actors whose faces will be used in the game will be notified a little later, so the current faces are still placeholders. It looked very good already at this point, but we really look forward to the final product!



The only thing which kind of was a setback in this early version, which is already over three months old, was the AI. We weren’t really bothered by it, and everything worked fine, but sometimes we noticed a few errors. The soldiers in your team are cooperating a little too well, sometimes they want to protect you and they end up standing in front of you, straight in your line of fire. It’s very nice of him to protect you, but not very useful when you want to shoot the last Helghast. The AI of your adversaries is not so perfect either, but we can say that this is just a small problem. Guerrilla has enough time to iron things out, so this won’t provide any problems.



After the stores in the mall have been explored it was time go outside. I was really curious to the outdoor location of Killzone, because after the great things we have seen inside, I wanted to see if Guerrilla was capable of providing the same for the outdoor locations. The answer to this is really simple: YES!



Every time at the start of a level I’m filled with joy. Even the mist looks very detailed, realistic and above all beautiful! When you’re walking you can literally feel the swamp beneath your feet, or around them. I looked into the distance, and I see grass and all kinds of objects flow with the wind current. Looking a little closer, I can see dust and sand fly up and taken away by the wind. A little further a small swampy stream breaks the rugged landscape, I also see some rock formations and fallen trees. This is what you do it all for! It’s just a moment, but it will stay with me forever, it just looks so real. Everything looks and moves like it should be. I start to look at the ground and Arjen tells me that the textures they used are just fotos from the nearby park. “We didn’t want to cut and paste everything, we wanted to use our own creations and simply went outside with a team and just took pictures of various objects.” It certainly bears it’s fruits, because I keep repeating how lifelike it looks. “We’ve also used textures for the water,” Arjen continues, “We move different textures on each other until we get the desired effects.” The water looks indeed a little different than what we are used to, but it certainly doesn’t look bad!



The atmosphere the ‘Helghast Mist’ breathes is humongous. I sneak through the swamps, knowing that behind every high patch of tumbleweed two bright orange/red eyes can appear. I emerge from behind a rock, and see two patrolling Helghast soldiers. I quickly head for cover, and try to take a few shots at them. After a loud scream they both fall down to the muddy floor and keep lying down. These kind of battles are so intense, and feel so realistic, this is really one of those unique moments you can experience on your Playstation 2. Experiences you will probably never forget!



There is one minor point of discussion I stumbled across. Even though how beautiful and wide the Helghast Mist is, we couldn’t go everywhere. Just when I thought, “Let’s see what is beyond that hill,“ an invisible wall stops me from going there. That kind of hurt, but luckily it didn’t happen all the time. Sometimes you hit a natural blockade, like fallen trees, or thick vegetation, but in outdoor levels, you have no other choice. You can’t keep roaming forever.



After Snake had snatched away the controller from me again, we end up at a crashed plane, which is still on fire. Here ends our little playtest with Killzone, and we go over to a tour through the offices. That, however, will be a reported in detail a little later.

Snake’s Experiences



I’m mostly going to talk about ‘Helghast Mist’, which I’ve been playing the most. This level shows how a jungle could look in the future, and it looks truly amazing. The water flows magnificently and the weeds, bushes, grass and palm trees move with the wind in the way they should be. You can also see dust flying through the air which is done in a lifelike manner. All sorts of strange sounds could be heard, which must’ve been recorded whole Joris was sound asleep :p. The Helghast soldiers did a pretty good in hiding themselves in these parts. They occasionally pop-up, or are patrolling with a small group. The surroundings are very detailed, and really get your attention.



I started out slowly, getting my bearings right, and after a while I went after the Helghast. It was very hard to take them out though, since they appear out of nowhere sometimes. Something that was very cool was that I could really empty my guns in this level. I preferred to use the standard handgun, since it shoots so well. I did have a couple of times that I got lost, but Arjen quickly helped me back on the right track. I crossed over a hill came unto another small stream and then I stumbled onto the section we know from the screens, the part with the fallen log. I jumped over it using the X button, and this is something you can do with almost any object.



In the next section you also saw more mist flowing over the grass, and that looked really special. I ended up at a crashed dropship, which was ablaze, and I can tell you that the fire in the game looks beautiful. I stopped for a while to look at it, when I was ambushed by a lot of Helghast soldiers. At exactly that point though the playtest had reached the end, a test I would never forget.



Kudos go to Guerrilla, who have paid attention to almost every detail. The animation of the characters, the sound of your own clothes, the sound the various weapons produce, ambient noises, everything is just there. When you’re in a battle you can hear explosions and people yelling and screaming around you, and that gives you the feeling of being in actual combat. The music score that was presented was one of the best I’ve ever heard in a game, and it really gave me Goosebumps. The men and women behind the game have really outdone themselves and created a near perfect game, we know that now. A lot will still have to be changed, the AI of the soldiers had it’s errors, but then again, this was an early build.



My early conclusion about this game is that this can hardly go wrong. Like I already said, they paid attention to nearly every detail, not only in the sound-department, but also graphics- and gameplay-wise. The shining on the weapons, the shining on the walls, only where needed, just like in real-life and the entire animation and feel of the game. TheIceMan and I can only say that this is going to be thé Playstation 2 game of 2004. Though we can’t really tell anything about the Multiplayer portion of the game, this game already rocks in the Singleplayer part. Mark my words!!



Thank you Vash (“Aaw, shucks” – Vash), Snake and of course Guerrilla, for giving us the opportunity to play Killzone. I can tell you: Killzone is going to be thé hit of 2004, and that wouldn’t have been possible without the men and women of Guerrilla. You are doing an excellent job!

Quelle: killzonegame.com

Wer sich die Bilder zum Beitrag angucken will einfach vorbeisurfen. ;)
 
Na dann, 2004 rückt näher und damit auch die Veröffentlichung eines Videos..., und irgendwann so in einem Jahr auch des gesamten Spiels... 8-)
 
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