PS4 Playstation 4

[Objektiv]

stört denn keinen die form?

Verglichen mit dem DS3 wohl keinen.

 

[PhilSpencer]

Sorry für die dumme Frage, aber was sind am Controller denn die digitalen und analogen Tasten?

 

[KingThorgal]

Sorry für die dumme Frage, aber was sind am Controller denn die digitalen und analogen Tasten?

Analoge Tasten haben mehrere Druckstufen. D. h. du kannst z. B. bei einem Rennspiel die Geschwindigkeit/Bremsen dosieren, je nachdem wie stark du deine Taste bestätigst.
Digitale Tasten haben aber nur noch einen einzelnen Druckpunkt und keine Stufen mehr. Entweder ist die Taster gedrückt oder nicht gedrückt. Es gibt also keinerlei Zwischenstufen mehr.

 

[Katana]

bei MGS zB wurde die taste gehalten (normaler druck so wie immer) zum würgen... dückte man dann mehrmals noch die taste betäubte man den gegner, drückte man allerdings einfach fest auf die taste tötete man ihn...
oder in der ego perspektive... normaler druck waffe ziehen/zielen fester druck schießen

 

[Dingo]

Verglichen mit dem DS3 wohl keinen.

ich meine der griffe.

der rest geht ja.
aber die griffe haben iwie ne.. kp, komische form.


und ja, analoge tasten waren awesome.

bei ace combat konnte man mit l1/r1 auch nur leicht strafen usw.

 

[PhilSpencer]

Alles klar, danke für die Aufklärung. So in diese Richtung hatte ich es mir auch gedacht. Dann versteh ich auch was Katana meint.

 

[Objektiv]

ich meine der griffe.

der rest geht ja.
aber die griffe haben iwie ne.. kp, komische form.

Was ist denn komisch an dieser Form.

 

[Katana]

ehrlich gesagt war es mir gar nicht bewusst in wie vielen spielen diese funktion auf der PS2 vor kam... irgendwie war das ganze immer sehr intuitiv eingebaut... man hat also die funktion verwendet ohne das man es überhaupt bemerkt hat...
zB beim scrollen in längeren menüs konnte man durch den druck aufs digipad oftmals die geschwindigkeit bestimmen...

dass es diese gen niemand mehr genutzt hat ist aber selbstverständlich... da nur die PS3 über analoge tasten verfügte und wir uns in der multigen befinden... (und ja ich bediene auch heute noch alle menüs mit dem digipad)

finde es nur schade dass die funktion (die wirklich nicht viel aufwand bedeutet) darum gestrichen wird und es somit mit dem DS4 nicht möglich sein wird viele der PS2 perlen vernünftig zu steuern sofern sony in zukunft AK (via gaikai) anbietet

 

[Dingo]

Was ist denn komisch an dieser Form.

kp, aber iwie find ich sie und darum auch die drauf sicht vom ds4 extrem häßlich.

weiß auch nicht.
sieht komisch/unschön aus.
muss wohl daran liegen, dass sie zylindrisch ist. kp.
passt nicht zum rest.

 

[Katana]

so besser?

wehe jemand beschwerd sich über meine paint skillz

 

[BlackGun]

Geht es nur mir so, oder kommt es euch auch so vor, dass Sony im Moment alles richtig macht? Ist ja schon unheimlich.

Wenn Sie das alles versprochene auch abliefern können + die gewohnt genialen Sony Titel bin ich glücklich

 

[KingThorgal]

so besser?

Spoiler

wehe jemand beschwerd sich über meine paint skillz

Schick das Bild an Sony. Ich will es so haben!

 

[Breaker]

Geht es nur mir so, oder kommt es euch auch so vor, dass Sony im Moment alles richtig macht? Ist ja schon unheimlich.

Wenn Sie das alles versprochene auch abliefern können + die gewohnt genialen Sony Titel bin ich glücklich

Sehe ich auch so, und das freut mich, erinnert mich an die PS1 und PS2 Zeit

 

[Dingo]

so besser?

Spoiler

wehe jemand beschwerd sich über meine paint skillz

muss gar nicht so viel sein.

hier auch.
oben etwas mehr, oder(und) unten etwas weniger.

und das bild hier ist einfach nur schrecklich:

passt iwie überhaupt nicht zum rest.

 

[Belphegor666]

und ja, analoge tasten waren awesome.

bei ace combat konnte man mit l1/r1 auch nur leicht strafen usw.

Ich finde Analogfunktionen auf den Facebuttons eher Gewöhnungsbedürftig. Bei irgendeinem der (PS2-) Silent Hill Teile hat man das auch für Melee-Attacken genutzt... hat mich aber eher genervt. Für das Analog-Gedöhns haben die Facebuttons einfach einen zu kleinen Weg um das richtig dosieren zu können.

Aktuell stört mich sogar die Analogfunktion der Schultertasten, da ausgerechnet Pinball Arcade davon Gebrauch macht. Wenn man die Schultertasten normal bedient, lösen nur die unteren regulären Flipperarme aus. Die zusätzlichen Flipperarme mancher Tische bedürften deutlich mehr Druck, was nur leider bei den kurzen Reaktionszeiten, die man manchmal braucht, tödlich ist. Manchmal reagieren die oberen Flipperarme sogar deutlich verzögert. Abstellen kann man diese Analogfunktion auch nicht, weil die Entwickler wohl dachten die realen Flippertische haben so etwas auch, also muss das auf der Konsole auch mit emuliert werden .

Aber die Schultertasten werden natürlich auf der PS4 auch noch vorhanden sein. Für Rennspiele ist das ja auch recht praktisch (auch wenn ich das Beschleunigen/Bremsen mit den Sticks bevorzuge - aber Facebuttons habe ich bei Rennspielen wirklich nur auf der PS1 benutzt) nur für Pinball-Games finde ich das absolut dämlich.

Aber es stimmt schon, wenn man irgendwie die alten Spiele doch wieder auf der PS4 Spielen kann (ich gehe eigentlich fest davon aus, das auch auf der PS4 die PS1-Titel emuliert laufen werden), dann wird man mit den neuen Controllern mangels der fehlenden Analogfunktion zuweilen Probleme bekommen. Man kann nur hoffen, das Sony vorgesorgt hat und man dann die alten PS3 Pads auch mit der PS4 pairen können wird. Es dürfte ja nun wirklich kein Problem sein, deren Bluetooth Profil/Protokoll auch weiterhin zu unterstützen.

ehrlich gesagt war es mir gar nicht bewusst in wie vielen spielen diese funktion auf der PS2 vor kam... irgendwie war das ganze immer sehr intuitiv eingebaut... man hat also die funktion verwendet ohne das man es überhaupt bemerkt hat...

Also ich habe das auf der PS2 recht häufig bemerkt. Allerdings auch nur deshalb, weil ich dort noch ständig die alten PS1 Controller nutzte, weil aus irgendwelchen Gründen bei meinen PS2-Pads dauernd die Schultertasten kaputt gingen. Und bei angestöpselten PS1-Pads haben viele PS2-Spiele (wie eben auch Silent Hill) den Dienst verweigert und den Spieler Aufgefordert gefälligst den DS2 zu nutzen, weil diese die Analogfunktion brauchten.

 

[Rocky]

DF hat nen schönen Bericht über die neuen Infos zur Konsole, Controller, Specs, etc.

Inside PlayStation 4
What Sony told game developers at GDC.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-playstation-4

Die Highlights:

Dualshock 4

"The analog sticks have been tightened up, they feel a lot more precise than they did on the DualShock 3," said Norden. "There's a motion sensor... accelerometers, there's a six-axis accelerometer and gyroscope in there. It's better than the one in the PS3, it's better than the one in the PS Vita. You got dual vibration like in DualShock 3 except it's been enhanced. One of the cool features - we've got a touchpad, it's a dual simultaneous touch-point..."

Norden revealed that the touchpad has an exceptional 1920x900 resolution, and that rumble has been significantly improved in the new pad. The vibration motors in the old DS3 had a larger "analogue" unit capable of multiple levels of motion, along with a smaller one that could just turn on and off. In the DualShock 4, both motors have been upgraded to offer varying levels of vibration, defined by the developer. In terms of how the controller feels in the hand, grippier surface materials are utilized to stop thumbs slipping on the sticks, where the deadzone has been refined considerably.

Few games supported it, but the DualShock 3 featured 8-bit precision analogue response not just on the face buttons but on the d-pad and L1 and L2 buttons too. This has been removed on the new controller, with the platform holder reaping the benefits of faster wireless comms with the main console as a consequence.

"They're going back to digital because nobody used them. It increased packet size, it increased latency so now we're able to reduce the amount of data we're sending back from the controller," Norden said. "We've managed to cut that latency way down and as a result the controller feels ridiculously fast and responsive."

Headset

"Everybody has asked about it, it definitely helps out with voice chat, multiplayer games and everything so we decided to go ahead and do that," Norden remarked. "It's got 32KHz stereo output for two players... frequency will only be reduced slightly when you start cranking up the number of players just because of the bandwidth of the wireless. And there's a 16KHz microphone port as well. The speaker is the same high-quality output as the headset. It streams directly from the PS4 at runtime."

Lightbar and Playstation 4 Eye

Sony confirmed that the lightbar on the controller is indeed used to track player location in the room - Norden discussed dynamic split-screen with the gamer on the left automatically getting the left screen as opposed to it being allocated by default to player one, with the views shifting if players swapped sides. Similar to PlayStation Move, different players receive different lightbar colors: the first pad gets traditional PlayStation blue, the second gets a red light while the third and fourth controllers illuminate with green and pink respectively - Norden explaining that the color choice correlates with the colors of the PlayStation symbols on the face buttons. Devs have control over the lightbar to a certain extent, so the LEDs could flash when a player takes damage during a game, for example. The lightbar also flashes while charging, with the pad able replenish its batteries even when the console is in standby.

Applications for the PlayStation 4 Eye camera were also discussed in depth. Firstly, a 1280x800 resolution per camera with 12-bit colour precision and a 60Hz refresh was confirmed, although it was also revealed that developers can trade pixels for frame-rate and that, at its fastest, PlayStation 4 Eye can update at 240Hz. We initially thought that the dual cam would be used for 3D applications and while the tech can triangulate depth in this way, Norden revealed a great many other uses too - the same shot can be acquired simultaneously at different levels of exposure, for example, giving a high-dynamic range effect and boosting low-light performance, while the frame-rate of the camera can be synchronised with the frame-rate of the game. Gesture-tracking and face-tracking libraries are also being provided.

Norden also hinted at Kinect-style gameplay, saying that the PS4 would support controller-free gameplay as well as custom props (reminding the audience of the old PS2 title that was bundled with pom-poms).

"You can get a really good lock on items in the room," he shared. "Cards, AR markers, wrist bands, clothing, LEDs, anything you can think of, you can track - LEDs work really well because it's a nice constant light source but you can do pretty much anything."

"Compute" architecture

What was intriguing was new data on how the PlayStation 4's 18-compute-unit AMD graphics core is utilized. Norden talked about "extremely carefully balanced" Compute architecture that allows GPU processing for tasks that usually run on the CPU. Sometimes, employing the massive parallelization of the graphics hardware better suits specific processing tasks.

"The point of Compute is to be able to take non-graphics code, run it on the GPU and get that data back," he said. "So DSP algorithms... post-processing, anything that's not necessarily graphics-based you can really accelerate with Compute. Compute also has access to the full amount of unified memory."

"The cool thing about Compute on PlayStation 4 is that it runs completely simultaneous with graphics," Norden enthused. "So traditionally with OpenCL or other languages you have to suspend graphics to get good Compute performance. On PS4 you don't, it runs simultaneous with graphics. We've architected the system to take full advantage of Compute at the same time as graphics because we know that everyone wants maximum graphics performance."

Leaked developer documentation suggests that 14 of the PS4's compute units are dedicated to rendering, with four allocated to Compute functions. The reveal of the hardware last month suggested otherwise, with all 18 operating in an apparently "unified" manner. However, running Compute and rendering simultaneously does suggest that each area has its own bespoke resources. It'll be interesting to see what solution Sony eventually takes here.

Low-level access and the "wrapper" graphics API

In terms of rendering, there was some interesting news. Norden pointed out one of the principal weaknesses of DirectX 11 and OpenGL - they need to service a vast array of different hardware. The advantage of PlayStation 4 is that it's a fixed hardware platform, meaning that the specifics of the tech can be addressed directly. (It's worth pointing out at this point that the next-gen Xbox has hardware-specific extensions on top of the standard DX11 API.)

"We can significantly enhance performance by bypassing a lot of the artificial DirectX limitations and bottlenecks that are imposed so DirectX can work across a wide range of hardware," he revealed.

The development environment is designed to be flexible enough to get code up and running quickly, but offering the option for the more adventurous developers to get more out of the platform. To that end, PlayStation 4 has two rendering APIs.

"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGL but it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."

But on top of that Sony is also providing what it terms a "wrapper API" that more closely resembles the standard PC rendering APIs. "The key is that it doesn't sacrifice the efficiency of the low-level API. It's actually a wrapper on top of the low-level API that does a lot of the mundane tasks that you don't want to have to do over and over."

The cool thing about the wrapper API is that while its task is to simplify development, Sony actually provides the source code for it so if there's anything that developers don't get on with, they can adapt it themselves to better suit their project.

RAAMMMM

The PlayStation 4's monstrous memory set-up was also touched upon briefly in the presentation.

"The cool thing about GDDR5 is that it's extremely fast. There's crazy high bandwidth. We have 176GB/s of total bandwidth across the system. This is from GPU, CPU everything... It's a fully unified address space, unified memory. Everything can access everything," Norden said. "If you're coming from PS3 you're used to the split memory architecture, you can't quite use all of it, the speeds are really wacky on some of it. We don't have that. It's eight gigs, it's there, it's easy."

We have heard that the bandwidth levels of certain components vary though. While the GPU has full access to 176GB/s, one source tells us that the CPU is more constrained at around 20GB/s - still pretty good at around two-thirds the level of bandwidth available to Intel's Ivy Bridge. However, depending on how you interpret what Chris Norden said, you could either view PS4 as having unified bandwidth levels across all components or simply that 176GB/s is the maximum level of bandwidth across the entire system. For what it's worth, leaked Durango white papers also seem to suggest that the CPU there has lower levels of bandwidth than its graphics core - and there are many, many similarities between the two next-gen consoles.

Immediate, frictionless, seamless and fast

Sony also reaffirmed its commitment to resolving one of the major problems that plagues the PS3 platform - system updates and installations that actively get in the way of your gaming. Norden summed up the current situation by saying that he didn't want to go away and make a sandwich or go out for dinner before he starts playing. The new system aims to make play as instant as possible by splitting up the game into chunks - a process the developer has full control over.

"We're going to encourage developers to create their games to have a bare minimum set of data in that first chunk. They download that, they start getting the user into the game so maybe there's intro movies, maybe there's character creation, maybe there's back story happening. So other chunks are downloading in the background and we can minimise the amount of time we're looking at loading screens. Nobody wants to stare at those, it's just not fun."

It all sounds perfect in theory but we're curious about how this is all going to play out in practice in a world where most playable demos - modular game samples similar in concept to what is being suggested here - are usually over 1GB in size. Similarly, Norden also evangelized the sharing of video content, specifically in terms of live-streaming gameplay and allowing other players to comment in real-time. Again, brilliant in theory, but how is this going to work in a world where a majority of broadband customers have dire upload speeds?

In discussing the potential, Norden did let slip with an interesting nugget of info - that live-streaming doesn't just encompass gameplay. A video feed from the PS4 Eye can be super-imposed in a picture-in-picture format, too - a small component in making the whole experience that much more social. Additionally, if you're looking to share some gameplay video, you can set it to upload and put the PS4 into standby. The Liverpool processor within the console features a low-power ARM core that handles tasks like this while machine is otherwise inactive.

The UI was also touched upon - a brand new front-end interface that replaces the PS3's cross-media bar. Again, it's all about making games more social and feeding you a stream of personalized content, as Norden explained:

"We wanted to make sure there was content available whenever the user wants it, we want to make sure you're always connected with your friends as much as possible - that everything is integrated in the system, that everything is easy to get to and easy to use," he said. "And it's personalized, so as you use the system more it learns what you do, what you play, what you like, how your friends act and it integrates all that together and provides you with a really centralized, responsive system.

Conclusion

The impression we got was of a platform holder hugely confident in the prowess of its hardware and of the concepts with which it has backed it. What excites us the most is that we have some seriously capable technology here, with Sony providing the means for developers to get far more from the architecture than is possible on PC. Now it's a case of seeing how that translates into the actual games - something we hope to see at E3...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531258

 

[Otacon]

Apropo Headset, man hat gesagt das sein schon im Paket drinne ne?

 

[Lightning]

Geile Zusammenfassung, thx.
Bin voll im Hype und kann es kaum noch abwarten, die Konsole zu kaufen und dann dieses "erste Mal" zu starten.

 

[Rocky]

Apropo Headset, man hat gesagt das sein schon im Paket drinne ne?

Jup.

*10 Zeichen*

 

[Breaker]

Das liest sich echt perfekt, Sony scheint wirklich alles richtig zu machen. 2014 bitte ein GT6 und alles ist perfekt

Bin mal gespannt ob die Konsole in einer oder mehreren Varianten kommen wird, also Core, Premium etc.